Turnovers are turnovers, Harden has a lot more, why are we excusing it? Harden is above his average for turnovers (For houston, lets ignore his OKC days since his usage was way lower) but so far he is a turnover machine, worse than Westbrook, so all this about Westbrook's turnovers while ignoring Harden's is being hypocritical.
You really think...let's sit down and hash this out... That Russell Westbrook...has the same impact to winning as Corey Brewer? Come on now. Really? all on Westbrook? So when the team is doing nothing but bricking threes and only Tucker can hit a shot, it's really ALL Westbrook's fault?
Yes, Harden has too many turnovers which is another reason Westbrook doesn't fit, you can't play 2 high turnover guys.... Look, you are trying hard, but Westbrook has been HORRIBLE, like lower than G-league bad on this team. Teams aren't even guarding him, fans in other arenas are yelling SHOOT it to him and laughing because they know he stinks at shooting. This was a MONUMENTAL **** UP in getting him - 40m a year for the next 4 years......during Harden's prime? The Rockets are a DEAD horse - might as well call the glue factory, they will NEVER win with Westbrook playing any significant role. He is just not good enough and is declining rapidly. Steve Francis part 2 - guys who rely on their athleticism - and don't develop the fundamentals so that when that athleticism starts to fade they can be effective. Westbrook is trying to be the same player now as he was at 23, and he can't do it because he is not the same.......and he is getting worse. UGH - Morey has to want out - I mean he would NEVER have picked up Westbrook, he is just not efficient. DD
Except that Harden provides nearly 25 more points to the offense nightly by scoring and assisting on sooooo much better efficiency than Westbrook. We would gladly trade the 0.6 turnover differential if Westbrook could do what Harden is doing. Hell I’d be leading the WOF bandwagon with you if he was producing like Harden. You are being disingenuous in the comparison. Trademark LOF style.
if russ keeps playing like that we might as well waive him, he needs to serious stop shooting contested 3s, and keep going to the basket and dish out, i am ok with a couple open 3s a game, but no pull up in transition or in front of defenders, he needs to play his strength which is driving and getting rebound and push, and shore up his defense as well, we are paying way too much money for a declining star
Well I’m sure you will just say these impact stats are stupid, but I will lay them out again. Corey Brewer has a career win shares per 48 average of .058 That is very bad. Right now Westbrook’s win shares per 48 is LOWER at .044 His current wins above replacement is NEGATIVE 0.5 The production we are getting from a max level guy playing 30+ minutes is worse than what we could expect from your average nba player!!! What does people bricking 3s have to do with Westbrook being the dumbest player ever? What does other people’s bricks have to do with Westbrook taking 20-30 shots a game when he’s one of the worst shooters ever?
Teams aren't guarding his three point shot, they are guarding everything else he does, that's how he's getting assists because teams sink in when he drives. Also, IDGAF what fans are yelling at him. Fans think Harden is a cheater who can't score without getting fouled. So what? Opposing fans say mean things to players. Rockets were never going to win anything with Chris Paul, we know that as factual.
See what you did? You cherry-picked your stats. Corey Brewer CAREER win shares per 48 vs Westbrook Win shares this year. Why didn't you compare Westbrook's Career win shares to Corey Brewer? I mean, I understand, Corey Brewer isn't even on a team (Yet we're comparing him to Westbrook...) but the least you could do is compare last years WS/48 to Russ's current. So, now that we are comparing Russ's career Win Shares...do you believe that Westbrook, with a career .162 winshare, is comparable to Brewer and that Westbrook has the same impact to winning as Corey Brewer? Yet, you say I'm the delusional one? You're sitting here comparing an All-NBA player to a player that's been a scrub for most of his career.
No they are not guarding him at all - until he gets in the lane, he is missing that pull up jumper too...they literally WANT HIM TO SHOOT - that is how much he sucks. The other team WANTS him to shoot. DD
Because no one is arguing that over their careers that Brewer and Westbrook are equal. They are trying to tell you that THIS year. The ONLY one Westbrook has played for Houston. His impact is Brewer level.
This isn't something alien to the game. Rondo and Kidd and a few other guards have been quite effective despite not having a shot and not getting guarded at the 3 point line. He can still affect the game positively despite not being a good 3 point shooter, its what he's done all of his career.
lol Jesus Christ dude I guess the wording wasn’t great there. I meant total points created. Scoring plus points scored off of assists. Harden generates about 25 more points. Does it with massively better efficiency and only averages 0.6 more turnovers per game than Westbrook. That is a GIGANTIC difference in production and efficiency for the tiny bump in turnovers.
'Lol jesus christ' even though you just admitted the wording was wrong? Lol Jesus Christ is right. Of course Harden generates 25 more points, why wouldn't he? He scores a lot more than Westbrook does and looks to score a lot more than Westbrook does, but Westbrook at his best is giving out assists. He had some insane ast% for OKC, basically assisting on more than 50% of their shots. That's his game, looks to pass more than shoot, for good reason. He's passing a lot too but I was told it doesn't matter that a lot of his passes go to open guys who brick shots...crazy, I know. Apparently, he's supposed to make the shot too! And oh, why isn't Westbrook given ANY leeway for his turnovers for being on a new team?
At this point you just have to hope that his averages come up closer to his career averages, or at least his career-worst averages from last year.
If you want to cling on to hope that we are going to get production that he managed years ago then go ahead. But this is a guy that people have said for years would clearly decline as he aged because he’s not a skill player. The decline began well before he got here and it’s not going to all of a sudden get way better. Look you brought up turnovers. I merely pointed out how stupid it is to compare the 2 when one is giving you heaps more efficient production with only a small amount more of turnovers.. Come to think of it. The fact that Westbrook only averages 0.6 less turnovers per game than Harden is a damn embarrassment when you realize how much more Harden has the ball. But at this point it’s become clear that you are aware of some or all of these stats. You went and pulled Westbrook’s career win shares per 48 fast enough for me to know that you know. So I know you know he’s playing terrible. Triple double hustle man has gotten you. And now you are defending him at LOF levels. Ignoring reality and offering up every excuse imaginable.
It's funny how when Westbrook turns over the ball it's "Kick him off the team!" But when Harden does it, it's completely excused...as if those lazy turnovers don't help teams get back into games but we just gonna ignore all of that and Harden is having one of his worse years turnover wise and we just gonna ignore that and blame every thing on Westbrook. There is 0 excuse for Harden's turnovers being as high as they are this year, 0. He's not the only guy in the NBA with a high usage He's the scapegoat now for some, when something goes wrong, it's his fault. I'm not ignoring reality, I've clearly said he's not playing well, but to act like everything bad with the team is his fault IS ignoring reality, he's had contributed to the team. What's clear is that you have made up your mind that when the team loses, It's Westbrook's fault. When the team wins, it's in spite of Westbrook, despite the game log literally showing that the Rockets got the lead in the 4th because of Westbrook's play, it's just completely ignored and non-material because you've picked your scapegoat for the season. Are people really this salty still over the 2017 MVP award? Get over it, Harden has, and basically rubber-stamped this move.
The question isn’t is Westbrook better than nothing. The question is is he better than $40 million in yearly salary spent some other way.
You are living in a crazy town. This has nothing to do with Harden, turnovers, wins, losses, whose fault it is, whatever It has too do with Westbrook being a huge negative to the team. He needs to go.
