1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine scandal Megathread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
  3. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
     
    JeffB, No Worries, RayRay10 and 3 others like this.
  4. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,847
    Likes Received:
    17,465
    Let's go over it.

    Is Trump an officeholder? If you believe that he is that checks one of the boxes necessary for bribery.

    Did he abuse power for personal gain rather than the public interest? This is what it all comes down to.

    We know that Trump used his power of office to withhold military aid. Congress had approved it, and it was supposed to go through. However, Trump's administration refused to send the promised and approved aid. That checks that box.

    Mulvaney has admitted it was quid pro quo. There is testimony from the diplomats there that it was contingent on the Ukrainians announcing an investigation into Biden. Furthermore, Ukraine after being told that it was needed, agreed to do it. Witnesses have testified to all of that. Trump has put forward no witnesses showing anything different. So that box has also been checked.

    The only box left is if it was for the personal or public interest. We know that having the Ukrainians announce a corruption investigation into the political rival of Trump in an upcoming election is extremely beneficial to Donald Trump. I have yet to see any evidence that it is in the public interest. That would be the last box check-marked and make Trump guilty of bribery which is one of the only two specific offenses listed as being impeachable in the constitution.

    If you have evidence to show that it was in the public interest please present it. Trump has presented none.
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    124,087
    Likes Received:
    32,974
    That is absolute FIRE !!

    Here is some of the timing.

    Sep 9th, Congress learns of the Whisteblower's complaint.
    Sep 10th -- Congress sends notice to Whitehouse about it
    Sep 11th - Aide released to the Ukraine.

    Trump got caught.......end of story.


    DD
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  6. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    30,088
    Likes Received:
    16,978
    Russia, if you are listening ...
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  7. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
    Two comments... first, this is the "transcript" of the first call, which isn't in question. But second, interesting that the word "corruption" appears no where in this "transcript"... when trump supposedly was intending to combat corruption. So yet another trump version of the call... and as usual, you count on trump lying.

     
    JeffB and FranchiseBlade like this.
  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
  9. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    17,506
    Likes Received:
    11,988
    Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitc is doing very well right now. No wonder Trump and crew wanted her fired.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    124,087
    Likes Received:
    32,974
    Trump can't stand powerful women - it upsets his small minded world view.

    DD
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  11. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,114
    Likes Received:
    13,517
    You sure about that? The House has the power to impeach the president and the Democrats in the House seem inclined. Representatives in the House and Senators too are going to have to be on record regarding the impeachment in the end and you can bet their decision either way will get scrutinized and second-guessed in their next election campaign. Public sentiment in each of their constituencies is probably going to drive how they vote in Congress on this one. By mounting no defense for the public and just pleading the fifth, he is letting Democrats define the narrative. They are going to hang articles of impeachment on him, and his only talking points are going to be about procedure?

    Which is why Republicans are calling it a sham, to tell their voters that they shouldn't believe any of this stuff. And they might squeak by with that strategy. But, couldn't they just dominate the field if Trump could provide an adequate explanation of how pressuring for a Ukrainian investigation of Burisma is a legitimate national interest? Beating them at their own game. And, he wouldn't even need to go by Schiff's rules. He could just go on TV and say it in whatever format he likes. If there was any good, lawful explanation of his behavior he could win the day, deeply embarrass the Democrats, and catapult his re-election. If he's innocent, this is a huge gift the Democrats just gave him.
     
  12. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
    trump's latest lie about the fake "transcript" released originally and the fake "transcript" released today.

     
    FranchiseBlade and B-Bob like this.
  13. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,239
    Likes Received:
    48,095
    @ZingBomb
     
  14. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
    Daniel Dale, who stays busy around the clock fact-checking trump, pulled together this list of 45 trump lies about ukraine... I listed just the first three...

    Fact check: A list of 45 ways Trump has been dishonest about Ukraine and impeachment
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/16/poli...dishonesty-ukraine-and-impeachment/index.html
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
    While some of his republican congressional enablers tried to protect themselves from his tweet intimidating a witness yesterday "its not about tweets", trump's tweets are both official statements and defender messaging. Even when they almost always contain lies...

     
  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
    The outright lies... no matter how blatant...

     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,362
    Likes Received:
    25,368
    lawl Connies silent because they waiting for their masters to whistle the Right call.

    They playing dead before rolling over, but they can't but fetch at the Derpman Probe!
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  18. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,405
    Likes Received:
    54,297
    But but he didn't know the russian crook clients of Rudy...

     
    mikol13, B-Bob and FranchiseBlade like this.
  19. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,239
    Likes Received:
    48,095
    A little off topic, but that is a handsome group of men.
     
  20. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    17,506
    Likes Received:
    11,988
    Why are they all so fat?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now