Yeah, the irrational fear that voters would punish Democrats for doing their jobs. We've seen it on these boards. Do your jobs, Congress, and let the voters make whatever decisions they need to make.
I'm excited that Bevin lost, but I'm not finger-wagging at anyone apprehensive about impeachment. There's still a lot of story to be told about how impeachment will affect the polls in 2020 and possibly through 2024.
There might be, but it doesn't matter. Congress should do their jobs. Honestly, most people don't remember the political issue that happened one week ago. Politically the best thing they can do is like they've been doing. Release new damning details, allow Republicans to make demands, then call their bluff. If people start getting weary of the process, then speed it along. It will be done in time for people to forget they were tired of it. Not overloading things right now is good. But either way, do the job. They need to impeach for what he's done. Support for impeachment has increased and not decreased since the beginning. Keep building support and put pressure on the Republicans.
I get the argument. If we're not going to impeach for this stuff, then why have the process at all? Can't set that precedent. I also understand the argument that politically it is a gambit because failure to convict will result in both a positive Trump narrative and an energized Republican base. In terms of impeachment support, it has pretty much stayed consistent since they launched the inquiry/formally announced it (and it was remarkably consistent before then, too). You really have to hope that the skeletons from the investigation just pile up so high that they can't be ignored in 2020, which is no sure thing (especially for a man like Trump whom has made a career out of his skeletons). Main point here is that I don't take last night to be a final word on impeachment politically, not by a long shot.
...I can agree on the sentiment here... ...but I believe that a larger principle is at stake here. I believe that doing the right thing is better in the long run than doing the easy thing. The right thing in this instance is to shed light on the very serious threat that capital (both domestic and foreign) has posed to the integrity of our country's ability to function as a theoretically democratic republic. Because the only way that gets addressed and corrected is if we face it directly. We've all heard the saying (and instituted a law—ugh—that says) money talks. Well now we can see clearly exactly what it's saying and who it's talking to. Catering to the lowest common denominator (not person)—fear, in general, and greed specifically—has wrought now, in clear and open view, a circumstance where there are more than a few people who are willing to set aside any pretense of civic or national honor or duty... ...which for me means looking to work with and help as many of us, despite our own individual perspectives on a number of things, as we can and are able to...in order to win. Win what, I suppose, is the question then...if we're allowing for such an answer... The process is just as important (perhaps in many cases, maybe even more important) than the result, in my opinion. That is the most effective way to measure our footsteps...determine our course...and correct our mistakes. This is a sports site, so I guess here's as good a place as any to try to make this analogy.... ...In the grand scheme of our country, democratic governance is not a winner-take-all proposition. Winning (and winning at all costs, subsequently), is really only appropriate or effective in a closed or controlled environment...like sports...where the rules are directly tied to the goal...and that goal is to win the contest. I believe that there's been enough hemming and hawing over which side (Democrat or Republican) is responsible for doing what...and which side is the enemy...because whether we agree about the origins or responsibilities or not, actions (and non-actions) will beget consequences more assuredly and consistently than wishes or suppositions will beget changes in perspective. Worrying about losing elections or portions of the electorate, at this stage, is about the same thing as arguing over the flatness of the earth, to me. I understand the politics...you don't get enough legislators in place who will address the issues you feel are important, then nothing so high-minded as defending the Constitution or enforcing the law has a hope of getting accomplished... ...so all politics are, again, local. Or more succinctly...all politics are PERSONAL. And personally, I just like to think that, even under the most adverse circumstance...given the opportunity, we can be better than the fear that has some bend or break the rules of our public trust with what is now impunity and callousness...because what you can buy and sell and trade is more important than what you preserve and defend and sacrifice for. We are well beyond the point, now, of trying to convince people of things they do not want to believe, or dissect things they have no desire to understand, or accept things that do not need their consent in order to exist. But I guess that's the point of all this, too. Nothing lasts forever. Not even democratic experiments such as this one America. And if in our agency as "free moral agents", and in our ability as free individuals, we can decide that our "morals" apply only as far as our appetites... ...well... ...much of the rest of the world, it seems, is more than ready to feast on this carcass. ...and while nothing lasts forever...I guess I'd not like to see this particular thing end quite before it's time. I was kind of looking forward to seeing how Dwanye "The Rock" Johnson would do in the Iowa Caucuses next spring...
This and it is still a year until the 2020 election.......... a lot can (and will) happen in that period of time. It was a very strong showing for democrats but it isn't definitive of 2020.
On one hand, a weird tweet, given that Bashear ran away from impeachment and the national party, and avoided the topic entirely. But true on the other, in that impeachment talk certainly doesn't help Dems in red/purple states. It's a necessity due to Trump's actions, but it's in no way politically beneficial. It may or may not have hurt him, but it certainly didn't help Hood in his attempt to win Mississippi.
I agree with this...... but I wonder. If the public sours on impeachment and Trump is re-elected we are looking at likely two Supreme Court Justices being replaced. At least one of those two would be Ginsberg. It would allow Trump and the Republicans control of the Supreme Court for decades. At the end of the day, the Supreme Court largely decides what is and isn't lawful. In the past we have relied on Justices (sometimes) putting what is "right" or "best" ahead of political issues....... not sure that would be the case with another Trump appointment.
That is the risk we take. That is also the mistake that was made when the Donald was elected, because the same risk was present in 2016. And there are already consequences for that being experienced. So nothing's really changed much from then to now, has it? The "right" thing, for me, is an euphemism in our society for what is best for the general populace, in terms of preserving life, liberty and property...which we have committed ourselves to as a nation governed by laws of general consensus, not decrees from autocrats. Most people that voted (or claimed they didn't vote) for the Donald already identified what they cared about and what they thought was important. Their decisions were personal. Their actions, however they were motivated, are cumulative and broad, as are the consequences. Personal reasons can, at best, provide an explanation for behavior. But they are a poor justification, in light of far-reaching consequence, for that behavior. What you do or don't do, matters more to others than your reason for doing it should matter to you, by and large. And this is why I've believed for a very long time that we have needed term limits in Congress. Legislators are the infrastructure of our governance at any level, but it is most evidently presented (because of the focus of media presentation) at the national level. The Executive is responsible for defending and enforcing ratified law. The Justice is responsible for interpreting and either edifying or eviserating law. The Executive changes frequently. The Justice serves interminably. But because ours is a nation of deliberation and consensus, it has made even less sense in the past 50 or 60 years that those closest to the process of crafting and passing legislation are not as representative of the ever-changing and growing shape of the electorate it serves. The Executive effects what the law allows. The Justice interprets what the law means for the individual. But the legislator? S/he states what the law is and what the law will do and who the law will affect. They are ultimately responsible for what the Executive defends and the Justice interprets. But because politics in general, and Congressional (be it national, state or local) politics in particular, has now obviously become a cottage industry insulated from its constituency and purpose, there have been woeful attempts made to acknowledge and address the needs of the larger populace. And we all...to some varying degrees, yes...ultimately will pay the same price for it. I get you. You look around and see and hear what some people will believe and do and say...and you realize that at the end of the day, all we have is us, if we are going to survive and thrive as individuals, families, communities...and it gets pretty scary. No "divine" intervention. No extraterrestrial influence. Just us.
[NPR] Tuesday's Elections Show Impeachment Might Not Be What The GOP Hoped For Who said NPR was left wing?
When you don’t have a crystal ball, do what’s right. If doing what is right result in wrong, there is something very wrong with all of us as a society. I truly believe the people aren't very wrong, that we do want what's right. And this is why everyone is fighting to be on the right side, to do the right thing. Trump and co said what he did was right, even if he abused the power of the fed gov, and that the WB and impeachment inquiry process is wrong. Outside of just facts, the battle of right and wrong is happening. The facts aren't going to change, the definition of what is right and wrong is changing. And if you aren't willing to fight for what's right, you have given in to allow others to define it. The consequences of that, IMO, are longer lasting than 2 more supreme court justices. Is that worth the risk - up to your definition of what's right and wrong and your willingness to fight for it.
I think the Trump base was already very energized and saturated. Looking back at 2018 already indicated that and early data from yesterday remain the same. They could get a bit more saturated and energized, but not much more. The key difference since 2016 is the other side became much more energized. There aren't signs that 2020 will be different. Both sides will be out in full force.
Not impeaching Trump IMO literally means there is no means to remove a president from office It means there is no limits to presidential powers beyond his own moral compass Rocket River
Worrying about voters getting bothered because Congress does the right thing and impeaches is wrong on many levels. 1. There is zero evidence so far that voters will be bothered by impeachment. 2. Make the case (which so far they've done) that impeachment is warranted. 3. Use the need for impeachment to put pressure on those that don't want to follow through. 4. Don't overplay the hand. (This might be the toughest one). Start first and reveal the most incriminating solid understandable evidence. Then release the full transcripts later that those who are more interested can read but it isn't overwhelming at first. 5. Build a big crescendo. Display the requirements that would need to be met to show the crimes and misdemeanors. Display the biggest pieces of evidence that meet each of the requirements, and announce the slam dunk. 6. Don't get sidetracked with the diversionary tactics.
