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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Out of customs union>stop protecting vested interests of the continent>drop prices on consumer goods>huge win
     
  2. malakas

    malakas Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Oh dear. Care to explain step 3?
     
  3. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Why does the UK have to apply tariffs
     
  4. malakas

    malakas Member

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    they will until they reach trade deals. Which they will have trouble to do with the US, because of pressure from the food loby.

    So what that has to do with lowering the price of goods?

    They will have to have the same taxes, the same safety and the same wages.
    At the same time they will not have cheap workers from Romania and Poland.
    They already made it almost impossible to get cheap workers from non EU countries.


    How exactly it will lower the price of goods?
    Magic?
     
  5. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    If they are out of the customs union they take control of their tariffs. They are probably just agreeing to not import CHLORINATED CHICKEN EHMAHGAWD!!!

    aside from the fact your tap water is chlorinated, being out of the customs union is a huge win to stop protecting non competitive continental vested interests.
     
  6. malakas

    malakas Member

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    and what?
    No more cheap immigrant hands
    keep high wages
    can't have cheap american food
    keep high taxes.

    Cheaper goods how lol?

    Not to mention that to reach any trade deal it takes many years in which time they will have tarrifs applied to them.
    And not to mention that no country will give them better terms in trade deal than what they already have had negotiated as a 500 million people trade block.

    What has chlorinated tap water has to do with anything? It is already chlorinated.
     
  7. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    You don't need a trade deal to raise or lower tariffs. Why do you keep talking about FTAs?
     
  8. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    If you're still bound by EU rules on food, environmental protection, etc.. what good is zeroing out tariffs? At that point, they'll still end up importing from the EU since the US competitive advantage on food is erased if US companies are bound by EU rules.

    You're basically describing the EEA at this point (such as Norway which is a member of the single market but outside of the EU customs union). You can lower tariffs to zero but if EU regulations stay in place, then EU countries will continue to have a competitive advantage and EU countries already trade tariff-free.
     
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  9. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    california cannot make EU spec wine? lol they already do. A tariff free UK would kill for them. Same goes for all other industries. The US sells to many different markets with many different regulations.

    the last sentence there is insanity.
     
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  10. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    You know who else makes tariff free wine that complies with EU rules? EU countries. And I'm glad you brought up wine. You literally have to design separate orchards dedicated to EU wine markets. The EU doesn't simply regulate things like pesticides. They regulate the acidity of soil, sulfur dioxide content, grape quality, sizes of vineyards, etc..

    It's really expensive to comply with and you'd be doing all of this work for a tiny market like the UK. Remember even if you comply with EU regulations, you'd still be subject to the EU external tariffs so you'd literally be creating dedicated orchards for the purpose of selling to a tiny island. Meanwhile, EU countries which are already complying with these rules can freely sell to the UK as they always have been. There's no extra cost to the EU vinyards but massive new costs and challenges for the ones in California.
     
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  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    A new comres poll shows 54% support for leaving in a poll of 26,000 people. When the undecideds are included, the margin is 50-42 in favor of leave, which is a pretty big gap. That is a big poll.

    New poll of 26,000 show 54% support for Leave

    The ComRes survey for Channel 5 and ITN Productions, which is the biggest since the 2016 referendum, found that 54 percent of people back the UK leaving the EU compared to 46 percent who want to remain. The 54 percent figure excludes those who responded to say they didn't know. If the number of Britons who are unsure is included, the result is 50 percent to 42.​

    Good timing. Right before they are going to hopefully vote on this new deal. And then comes the election perhaps before the end of the year.
     
  12. malakas

    malakas Member

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    EU will not grant any further extension, says Juncker, implying MPs must choose between this deal and no deal

    Of course he can't really speak for the EU 27 or make any decisions but I hope this passes the mesage.
    Vote this through

    DUP says it won't vote for deal because it 'drives coach and horses' through Good Friday agreement

    Looks like no amount of bribing was enough..or was it? Maybe add another billion to their pockets and they will sing a different tune.
    Without the DUP it wil be very difficult for Johnson to pass his deal through.

    Government loses vote on procedure for Saturday that could allow MPs to close Benn act loophole

    Another day, another vote lost by the government.

    The loophole in the Benn act means Johnson only has to send a letter requesting an extension if MPs fail to pass a motion backing a deal by Saturday. In theory they could pass that motion, but then fail to pass the withdrawal agreement legislation, which would mean the UK leaving without a deal on 31 October.

    The Letwin amendment should also make it possible for MPs to table an amendment saying Johnson’s deal should be subject to a second referendum


     
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  13. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

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    I think I get it now. Johnson was against the backstop all this time because he didn't like the idea of NI remaining in EU customs as an insurance measure only - he wanted to make it default policy :D . He's gone from a backstop, to a front go ahead and re-unify sign.
     
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  14. malakas

    malakas Member

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    yeah
    No wonder the DUP hasn't agreed.

    They are corrupted who are used work with bribes but also ex- militia who smuggled guns to terrorists or terrorist victims themselves.
    It seems fanatism will win over their love for money.
     
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  15. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Of course none of the Leave supporters will give a rip about what happens with any letter if the UK leaves on October 31. Nor should they.

    If the EU sticks with that position, then it is victory for the people of the UK either way. Either they will leave with or without a deal on October 31. The important thing is that they leave as a sovereign country. Period.
     
  16. malakas

    malakas Member

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    It isn't a position only let's say.. propaganda to pressure british MPs to pass it through.

    He spoke but he has no authority to make decisions no the green light to speak for the EU 27 on this and he hasn't consulted them.

    In reality it is extremely likely if not certain that the EU will grant another extension if Westminster says it needs more time to read through the legal text and consult experts.
    Now if they vote on this and it is turned down by a humiliating number I don't know.
    Maybe they will really tell the UK to just leave.

    The WTA isn't only the irish backstop. For example it gives the right to 7 EU countries to continue to fish in british (scottish) waters. There are many interests at stake.
     
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The EU has approved formally voted to accept Boris Johnson's new deal at the EU Summit today. Now it is on to the UK Parliament.

    As far as Junker's announcement that a further extension was off the table, that does not appear to be the consensus of other members of the EU leadership. In any case, we have seen these people make promises on this issue before and then change their minds at the last minute. So, time will tell.

    EU Summit LIVE: EU nations agree Boris' deal – but silence on extension angers Remainers

    Leaders of the EU27 voted to accept the new Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration secured by Prime Minister Boris Johnson. The leaders voted to accept the changes to the deal at the EU Summit, after the Prime Minister spoke to leaders. European Council President Donald Tusk's spokesman said EU leaders have approved the new Brexit deal.

    Following news of a deal being reached, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen smiled and walked away after being asked about a possible extension, while Latvia's Prime Minister also suggested one may still be required.

    Pressed on the matter at the end of her interview as she arrived for the summit, Mrs von der Leyen simply smiled and walked away - while Latvian leader Krisjanis Karins, speaking as he entered the summit, said it was "not clear" whether an extension would be needed - but did not rule one out "on technical issues".​

    This is going to be an interesting weekend at the UK Parliament, and maybe next week in Brussels as well.
     
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  18. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Yes Saturday will be must watch tv.
     
  19. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    None of your BS here makes sense. America exported half a billion dollars worth of wine to the EU in 2018 so obviously they have figured out what you paint as an impossible puzzle of EU regulations.

    If the UK has regulatory alignment, american wine producers just need to use follow the same rules but get the huge advantage of facing no external tariffs in the UK market. Win for California, win for UK consumers. Loss for France.
     
  20. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    Its good that you brought this point up as well. The US and the EU have an actual wine trade agreement that was signed in 2006 that facilitates this trade. So today, California wine makers are able to sell in the EU using standards that are mutually agreed upon by the US and the EU.

    That agreement isn't perfect but it does facilitate the trade of wine to the EU without totally subjecting US vinyards to EU standards. But this highlights a big problem. The UK would still be tied to EU standards without the benefit of EU trade agreements. And its no safe bet to even assume that the US would just let the UK re-implement that deal separately. The US clearly wants a full FTA with access to UK food markets, the NHS, and other parts of the UK economy.
     
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