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Who faced tougher defenders/defenses? Jordan or Harden? Debate/Poll

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Air Canada, Sep 1, 2019.

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Who faced tougher defenders/defenses?

  1. Harden

  2. Jordan

  3. Jordan faced tougher defenders

  4. Jordan faced tougher defenses

  5. Harden faced tougher defenders

  6. Harden faced tougher defenses

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
Page 9 of 13
  1. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Just cuz you can't comprehend an argument... Doesn't mean it's not there...
    That'll do buddy
     
    #161 Air Canada, Sep 11, 2019
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  2. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Where his hands are is irrelevant...
    Yeah that angle tells you nothing and this quality doesn't help... I already explained as much... You can't tell where his head is aligned at all... Even when I tried to slow it down and ⏸... Yeah it was fast, but if you haven't seen that from other dunkers of the modern era, then I just don't know what you've been watching... Also no one is denying MJ was a great athlete... I'm denying the 48 inch or even 46 vert... A 48 inch vertical would mean his nose would be above the rim lol
     
    #162 Air Canada, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  3. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    I don't think you read my post... That photo of MJ was not me saying any of what you said.... I was making a point of a good angle to give an estimate... I looked at countless dunks... He never comes close to a 48, 46, or even 44.

    Also that oft cited UNC vert isn't a true vertical nor is that official or substantiated... And it's not even a 48 vertical anyway either.

    I'd love to know how Russ' athleticism is overrated... Athleticism is more than how high you can jump... Tell me one PG from MJs era as athletic or more athletic than Russ... Penny? Nope... Kevin Johnson? Absolutely not.

    Also I'm not just talking about MJ in a vacuum... I'm talking about the defense of that era.... The opposition... The level of perimeter players and scorers in comparison etc.
     
    #163 Air Canada, Sep 11, 2019
  4. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    You never answered on this....


    Curious what you think also....
     
    #164 Air Canada, Sep 11, 2019
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  5. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Imo each one of them would comfortably be in the top 3 probably every year, at the least. Those are all time great players. But you can never know for sure what would happen haha.
     
    #165 HP3, Sep 11, 2019
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  6. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
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    I agree with HP3. Top 3.

    One thing that I would factor in is that during that time the 3 point shot was not as prevalent as you know. I would like to see how these players would fare without shooting volume 3's. If a player like Curry had to put the ball on the floor more and and have to venture into a much more violent paint area during that time would have been interesting to see. Lebron would have beaten up but he has the frame to handle it. He would have lived at the line. The guys you listed are prolific scorers in any era, but i don't think it would be as easy for them as you may believe. Obviously it took a lot more 2's than 3's to reach 50 points during that era.
     
    #166 BaselineFade, Sep 11, 2019
  7. legacygt777

    legacygt777 Member

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    NBA Playoff Stats:

    Points per Game:
    Michael Jordan 33.4
    James Harden 22.9


    Total Points:
    Michael Jordan 5,987
    James Harden 2,654


    FG%
    Michael Jordan .487
    James Harden .419


    3pt %
    James Harden .330
    Michael Jordan .332

    Best playoff game pts:
    Michael Jordan 43.7
    James Harden 31.6


    NBA Regular
    PPG
    Michael Jordan 30.1
    James Harden 24.3

    Scoring Leader:
    Jordan 10x
    Harden 2x

    Weather it's PPG in the season or especially the playoffs which counts the most, Jordan is clearly the better offensive player and a 10x scoring champion. We're not even talking about defense or championships.
     
    #167 legacygt777, Sep 11, 2019
  8. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    I agree that MJ is the better scorer primarily because of what he was able to do in the playoffs, but it would be better if u compared MJ to Harden while in Houston since his bench days in OKC drag down his scoring averages

    Harden in Houston

    regular season: 29 ppg on 19 shot attempts and 10 free throw attempts per game

    postseason: 28 ppg on 21 shot attempts and 9 free throw attempts per game

    MJ in CHI

    regular season: 32 ppg on 23 shots and 9 free throw attempts

    postseason: 33 ppg on 25 shots and 10 free throws

    if Harden scored at his regular season rates in the playoffs, then maybe I’d entertain him being on MJ’s level as a scorer
     
    #168 Reeko, Sep 11, 2019
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  9. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    HP3 is much better at this than you... This was terrible... For one you have to only include his numbers as a starter and you should be using TS%... FG% is useless.. Why must I educate you.
     
    #169 Air Canada, Sep 12, 2019
  10. htwnbandit

    htwnbandit Member

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    Dude you're a clown. I bet you started watching basketball in 2012 when LeBron finally won it.
    [​IMG]
     
    #170 htwnbandit, Sep 13, 2019
  11. OddsOn

    OddsOn Contributing Member

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    90
    Detroit Pistons
    Boston Celtics
    New York Knicks
    the list goes on...

    And back then you could be physical with the guy, none of this wussy hand checking fouls like they call today.
     
    #171 OddsOn, Sep 14, 2019
  12. legacygt777

    legacygt777 Member

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    Jordan's offense > Hardens in the playoffs with tougher defenses, especially with hand check and centers blocking the lane.

    I've witnessed both.
    You need to quit the drugs. No matter what your little millennial mind thinks, you're wrong.
     
    #172 legacygt777, Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  13. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Not even close... I've been watching a lot of ball since 98... Since 2001 I've been watching it a high level.. Probably over a 100 games a season minimum... You have no argument just sit down.
     
    #173 Air Canada, Oct 2, 2019
  14. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    the defenses favored elite isolation players... It favored Harden's game.... They also didn't focus on defending perimeter jumpers nearly as much... Harden would thrive... Look what so many inferior perimeter scorers to Harden were able to do in that era... Just look at the guys after MJ.... King, Wilkins, Mullin, Miller... These dudes aren't in Harden's stratosphere offensively yet right up there among the leaders in scoring... Please sit down.... KD, Harden, LeBron, etc would dominate offensively in that era... Lol
     
    #174 Air Canada, Oct 2, 2019
    clutchdabear and fckbandwagons like this.
  15. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    first off, your comparison model sucks because you're not only comparing players, you're also comparing eras.

    shear defense-wise, it's easy to say 90s had a lot more formidable defensive players. hell, you're on a Rockets site and we won our chips during that time because of one of the best defenders ever in Hakeem... i mean, there's so much more to mention like the bad boy Pistons, that Jazz team w/ Stockton and Malone... Spurs w/ David Robinson and Duncan...

    and the player comparison you make... terrible... Harden is my favorite player today, but his flopping won't be liked by anyone in the 90s, not even stat nerds. on the other hand, MJ would love to flop to get extra FTAs, you kidding me?

    hand-checking and all that aside, Harden would've had to drive in against Isiah Thomas and others, to face a Hakeem, Malone, Shaq, Robinson, etc., jumping to get a block. not to mention, you got guys like Charles Barkley and Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn, Dennis Rodman... just punishing you with physicality any time you force a switch like he does w/ picks.

    Harden isn't so weak-minded to completely give up on playing the game after all that, but i guarantee you he wouldn't play w/ the same swag that he does today if he went to play in the 90s.
     
    #175 s3ts, Oct 3, 2019
  16. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    You're showing your massive ignorance and also buying into the narrative and nonsense of the overrated defense of the 90s.... There was no free zone defense..... It was illegal... Isolation was embraced and players proficient at it could excel... Especially perimeter guys... Harden's handle is vastly superior to any guard of that era and he is bigger and stronger physically than the vast majority of them.... He also can shoot the ball from the outside off the dribble at a higher level than ANY OF THEM.... in an era that concedes many open perimeter jumpers... They would be at Harden's mercy.... Also Harden would be able to clear out and go in isolation on any given possession without the defense being able to help without doing a hard double because of the illegal D... This all plays into Harden's hands much more than the game today.... Also THEY CALLED MORE Fouls and players shot more FTs in the 90s... Look at some of the other perimeter players and how many FTs they also got.. Guys that barely drove the ball like Reggie Miller or Chris Mullin had seasons of 7FTA per game... Guys that aren't anywhere close to Harden's level of ability at driving the basketball... Look at the other perimeter stars after MJ who flourished and were high on the scoring lists of that era(25-30ppg)...

    Dominique Wilkins
    Chris Mullin
    Reggie Miller
    Bernard King
    Mitch Richmond
    Clyde Drexler

    They don't hold a candle offensively to the perimeter stars of this era.... Whether we're talking talent, skill level, versatility, etc.... Harden, KD, and LeBron would easily be able to outscore those guys... I'm not even mentioning Kawhi, PG, etc...
     
    #176 Air Canada, Oct 3, 2019
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  17. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    You can’t compare eras
    Because the 90s will always win in everything except flat screen TVs
    @Jontro

    and kids now you put that truth hurts song as #1

    this travesty is on you
     
    #177 tinman, Oct 3, 2019
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  18. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Maxwell punched a fan in Portland and got what ? Like a two game suspension

    obviously society and humans were tougher in the 90s

    this is not just basketball
     
    #178 tinman, Oct 3, 2019
  19. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Did you even watch Above the Rim?
    @Os Trigonum
    You’d get shot up by Tupac if you suck at basketball

    Shep came back and dominated

    Don’t ever diss the old generation Nutso
     
    #179 tinman, Oct 3, 2019
  20. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Anyone from this generation build a rockets site as good as this?
    @Rocket River

    exactly

    if you diss the 90s you diss greatness
     
    #180 tinman, Oct 3, 2019
    Rocket River likes this.
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