Who faced tougher defenders/defenses? Jordan or Harden? Debate/Poll

Highlights of the games? Or like full blown games? Cause using highlights as part of your arguments, doesnt do it for me. What do you mean lack of contests, like I watched this whole video, he got contested a ton, lol like what? You dont think that happens today, even in the playoffs? Most guys who have great scoring nights tend to get looks like that. And even then, Harden taking a lot of contested 3s, normally isnt a good thing. Like Jordon was getting a lot of those "open" shots because he was dominant going to the basket. Plus you using one game by Jordon in the POs compared to one game of Harden isnt comprehensive of anything. It's not about questioning your opinion, your methodology just doesnt give anyone a clear view.

 

Again, what is this nonsense about contests? That's them playing off them enough to stop the drive, otherwise they'll get blown by. Also you last sentence, go look at any big game. See how that doesnt work, a star's "big" game isnt a comprehensive view at all.

 

Lol plus even when Jordon came back(Wizards), the man still averaged 20 PPG at 40 years old on really good shooting splits after being retried for 2-3 years. And he to play against the dreaded "zone."

So it's hard for me to say Harden faced tougher defenses when I really dont have the clear cut picture of the 90s. I think it's unfair.

 

I have seen him, i saw that whole video he posted and he got contested a ton, what are you talking about? There was help? It was in that same video? What?.....Plus you only posted one game? I wonder how their defense looked when he had bad games? For multiple reasons? Cmon man? He came off a lot o down screens to get that mid range jumpers, dude's were playing back to contest the drive, Lebron (from early to mid) in his career was played the same way.

 

watch the video...

 

That's why these arguments are tricky, because how would that work against a dominant 3 point shooting team or a team full of great shooters with better spacing, ball movement, better ball handlers, and possibly better athletes.

Even in that time period, the Knicks often struggled against great shooting teams, like the Celtics, Pacers, and Suns.

Those Knicks teams would've gotten smoked, if you gave Prime-Reggie Miller, the modern day Pacers roster or the early 2000s version with O'Neal and Artest. They built a team to specifically stop MJ and similar teams of the 90s. If Miller and MJ had a bad game against them, they'd win. With a legitimate contender now or the previous eras, your star can be as mediocre as ever in a series or the playoffs. You could still go deep in the playoffs, especially if your 2 - 4th best scorers are 17-25+ ppg guys.

Michael Adams is a great example that OP used, because people say he could do that now. Yet, I can name 12 point guards off the top of my head who is better than him without looking. Another 12-15 in comparison.

 

Define tougher defense?

Jordan faced bigger (heavier) players that hacked/fouled hard without the fear of flagrant being called like
in today’s NBA game. No Zone defense and players had to stay in the vicinity of their counterpart or move
to player with ball (doubling) entirely. Couldn’t position self in between multiple players and guarding all....
allowing bigger passing windows and lanes to the hoop.


Harden faces smarter defenses which can play off of their counterparts and scheme to the strengths of the offense....
cutting down passing windows and lanes to the hoop due to decreased angles. One player can guard 2 or 3 players
on the weak side....meaning more defenders in the vicinity of Harden. Teams cheating by having player(s) in the
paint to skirt the 3-second defensive rule and getting away with it most of the time.








Harden could have played in Jordan’s time by lowering his shoulder into the sternum of the opponent and still getting
off his shot. The extending the arms/ball in front of him would still be too tempting for the players then to avoid hacking
and fouling him at the wrists and forearms....still getting off a shot because of his strong hands/arms. Wider driving lanes.

 

old heads love to act like the defense played back then was so amazing and on another level...a lot of these dudes couldn’t guard whoever the star player was so they just resorted to hacking, clotheslining, pushing, shoving, etc in addition to hand checking

“I can’t actually guard u so let me just beat u up when u try to make your move”...that football player that came to the gym to hoop type sh*t

Harden would smoke the vast majority of defenders back then with ease and they’d resort to hacking so Harden would still get his 10+ trips to the line...dude is too skilled, too creative, too strong

defenses as a whole are smarter...a lot more scheming has to go on in today’s game IMO...today’s defense lacks these dudes who will just hit u with a football player foul after getting BBQ’d out on the perimeter

 

Bro you posted one play off game and you’re telling me Michael jordon didn’t get get contested for his shots and posting a couple highlights to make your point. That’s not a good way of going about it, and not to mention you have stats to back it up. So you’re telling me to rely on no stats and highlight videos to tell me about how teams guarded Jordon....lol what.

Well Harden’s FT rate would probably be lower in the 90s as well.

Ok this the second time you’ve been a jerk here. Don’t make passive aggressive comments when I’m just trying to have a discussion.

 

Nah he didn’t have good shooting splits my bad, but him averaging 20 ppl at that age is still impressive, so I don’t think the zone would have as much of an affect as you would think.

 

You have any stats to back this up? At all? Anything besides highlights? You may or may not be right but posting highlights gives you a surface level understanding of how defenses played back then. Like I said before your methodology is way off.

 

Then you’re relying on pure eye tests on a bunch of highlight videos without posting any stats.

Really you got anything to back up the way they called fouls the same way they do now the in the 90s. Calling more fouls per 100 possession is great and I think that gives credence to your argument but it doesn’t tell the whole story which is the problem I have with the way you present your arguments.