1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Ringer] 30 Facts that Will Make or Break the Harden-Westbrook Rockets

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by SamFisher, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,674
    Likes Received:
    39,252
    Eh...

    For the Thunder, their top 5 non-George/Westbrook (by number of shots) shooters shot 36% on 1211 3s.
    For the Rockets, their top 5 non-Harden/CP3 shooters (by number of shots) shot 36% on 1827 3s.

    The volume is pretty significant. We were basically equivalent shooting teams outside of our stars in terms percentages, but we shot way more.

    Still, I agree with you and the Ringer that the idea that suddenly Westbrook will play with shooters is silly.
     
    joshuaao, ilias, D-rock and 2 others like this.
  2. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,127
    Likes Received:
    112,641
    There are things the Rockets and Westbrook can do to mitigate the negatives. One thing is for sure, Westbrook doesn’t need to be shooting 2’s outside the paint. If he shoots 33-34% on 3’s the Rockets can win.

    Last year he was an atrocious shooter off the knee injury. If he shoots that poorly again, we aren’t winning anything.
     
  3. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    30,953
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    guard must be a legitimate threat to shoot or it kills team spacing
     
  4. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,997
    Likes Received:
    12,867
    I don’t recall James Harden being on the Thunder for the past 3 seasons... Paul George was on the Thunder last season and coincidentally it was MVP level season for George.

    The Rockets are a better 3 point shooting regardless of keying in one metric... OKC only had two 3 point shooters above 35% regardless of how the 3 point shot was taken.

    You can use statistic to prove whatever point you want... 67% of people know that.
     
    RichieBanks and hakeem94 like this.
  5. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,997
    Likes Received:
    12,867
    Harden’s willingness to adapt is just as important as Westbrook’s.

    Harden’s “Your turn, my turn” won’t be the same with Westbrook.
     
    biff17 likes this.
  6. Homey the Clown

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    329
    So when Westbrook takes those dumb pull up shots in game where they almost never go in are what he calls cotton shots. Never knew there was a name for it lol.
     
    harold bingo likes this.
  7. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,674
    Likes Received:
    39,252
    The pull up 3 has to go. In 2016 it was 34%. 17 it was 28% and 18 it was 26%. That is just putrid and it drags everything down. Not only are they horrible percentages but it also means he's taking a quick terrible shot that leads to a long rebound instead of letting another player shoot. It's just awful.

    Beyond that he has to get back to being the shooter he was in past years off the catch and shoot. This year was just barf inducing but years past only led to gas in your throat. 17 was 34% on catch and shoot and 16 was 35%. Those are not good numbers for catch and shoot 3s but you could live with that.

    In general he just needs to stop pulling up. 28% of his shots were pull ups last year (2 or 3) and he shot a woeful 31% overall. It's a terrible shot for him.
     
  8. bulkatron

    bulkatron Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    2,104
    Here's the thing - is there any shot Russ can hit at a high percentage other than at the rim? Because those attempts will be the first to go down as his athleticism wanes. Hopefully that won't happen for a while, but Chris Paul is a guy who is smart enough to figure out how to compensate for that. Russ is not.
     
  9. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,538
    Likes Received:
    43,123
    We are actually a slightly above average 3 pt shooting team but because the team is attempting league high numbers, many homers think we are such a great overall 3pt shooting team, every superstar is coming to benefit from our 3 pt shooting and vice versa.
     
  10. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,538
    Likes Received:
    43,123
    I think Russell W Brook is as stubborn as Melo, maybe a tad less but they ain't changing much, MDA has to work around it.

    I maybe wrong but there is a great possibility it ain't changing much.
     
  11. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,674
    Likes Received:
    39,252
    No.
     
    clutchdabear, B-Bob and bulkatron like this.
  12. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,674
    Likes Received:
    39,252
    If he takes the same shots at same volumes he has historically this pairing can't work. He HAS to be willing to make changes.
     
  13. finsraider

    finsraider Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,924
    Likes Received:
    4,984
  14. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    19,116
    Likes Received:
    20,867
    And I'm expecting changes will be made because Russ is still within his Prime years whereas Melo was way out of it when he came here.

    If I'm wrong then I'm wrong and next season (and the next few years actually) will be a nightmare. I'm hoping for some high level of success after a few growing pains.

    If MDA is going to stagger Harden and Westbrook like he did with Paul then having 3 3&D type players plus a PnR center with Russ will be ideal.

    Capela
    Tucker
    House
    Gordon
    Westbrook

    That's not a bad 2nd unit when Harden rests. You can then bring in Chandler for a few minutes. I think everyone's hope should be that we get Covington so we can give Tucker a few minutes of breathing room and play something like

    Chandler
    Covington
    House
    Gordon
    Westbrook

    for 10-12 minutes a night. You have more than capable defenders surrounding Westbrook on the defensive end and you have shooters surrounding the 3 point line waiting for Westbrook to operate and kick it out to the open guy.
     
    Gray_Jay likes this.
  15. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,577
    Likes Received:
    35,648
    The onus will be on Harden to make him change. Because Harden wanted him.
     
  16. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,997
    Likes Received:
    12,867
    Comparing Gordon to Dennis Schroeder is pretty eye opening.... the efficiency on that type of volume is telling.

    Westbrook will be playing with better shooters and better playmakers than OKC.
     
    hakeem94 and D-rock like this.
  17. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    107,222
    Likes Received:
    155,863
    Yeah, the "Well we need Russ to stop doing this, this and this and start doing this, this and this" and "Don't shoot there, shoot here." ... LOL Good luck.

    One thing for Daryl to put 23 year old James Harden into his basketball nerd machine, another to put 34 year old Carmelo and 30 year old Westbrook.

    In a way, Russ will fit right in! Take a lot of threes, miss a lot of threes! Shoot away! :D
    Oh, now we care about bricks?

    [​IMG]
     
    clutchdabear, B-Bob and hakeem94 like this.
  18. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,499
    Likes Received:
    29,548
    In the week that he's been a Rocket, I've seen about 15 different versions of "if he can just change and do ______" or "he can be successful if he does _______"

    The dude isn't changing his game at age 30. Didn't change with Durant, George, Oladipo, whoever. It ain't happening.
     
  19. PlayBall

    PlayBall Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2019
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    401
    Westbrook still thinks he's an MVP player. You think his ego's going to let him accept a bench role??
     
  20. Little Bit

    Little Bit Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    7,115
    Likes Received:
    5,977
    I couldn’t even get through the whole article. Just depressing......
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now