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The difference between Harden and superstars

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Senator, May 12, 2019.

  1. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    anything to ease the pain there. cool
     
  2. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Well, there's lots of different ways to go for it. We all know how much respect DM has/had for HInkie, for example... of course because Hinkie was on the staff here, but also because he had the guts to go for it a different way. I'm not saying that was the obvious way either.

    I'm just saying when it seemed obvious to most that GSW had as unbeatable a team as feasible (73 win team adding KD), when you could have taken assets to push the window 4 years out, they said f'that and we want to win today.

    Trading for CP3 wasn't as much about losing PBev, Lou or Harrell. PBev is forever overrated, and Harrell wasn't what he is today - he wasn't on the Rockets, and he wasn't on the Clippers either before this year. You make that trade EVERY day. You win that trade on an asset versus asset basis EVERY TIME.

    But it was about the contract. For all the b****in about CP3s three years remaining, that was what you signed for the second you traded for him. That's how he "went for it".

    He didn't only say we're going for it TODAY. But we're doing it even if it makes tomorrow hard to further build on the team.

    I'm still inclined to put DM further down the "blame" list. Absolutely, this team is talent deficient relative to the Warriors, and, heck, the 76ers, the Raptors, the Bucks... But not crazily so. And DM has turned over the roster many times around Harden. And he's added all-star, all-nba players around Harden. Never 100% perfect. In retrospect, Dwight was Dwigthmare almost from the start.

    Even bigger picture, DM is very well thought of league wide, his "executive tree" keeps widening by the year, etc.

    With a directive of (i) always stay competitive, while (ii) being under the luxury tax and (iii) never having good lotto picks (lately because of him, though... ) he's done a halfway decent job.

    Tying into all of this is, ultimately, do you believe the system or Harden is changeable in any significant way? I don't, not in this situation. Traded to another team, maybe he goes in fresh and style of play changes. But here, the organizational inertia is too strong. Along with what I said above, to me, it's all kind of "Harden"-led. This is not to hate, just what I see. You can change out coaches, but you're still going to get an VERY HEAVY does of iso-ball, spread offense, and dribble dribble stand 5 feet behind the three point line and not move. You can add Jimmy Butler, and you'll still get that.

    Conversely, imo, you could replace Harden with whomever (make up a random trade getting a lot in return), and I think the entire style of the offense would change, but you'd STILL ultimately have on that relied on analytics, and that was run successfully by MDA.

    Relative to what I quoted, to me, you could magically add Jimmy Butler AND Anthony Davis somehow (say you lose one of CP3/Capela and one of EG/Tucker in the process), and I'm still not picking the Rockets as favorites against GSW. Or maybe even other teams (some strong teams in the East getting stronger). This may sound crazy... but the GSW being just as good, basically, without KD, sounds crazy, too. But so far, it is what it is...
     
  3. Hmc415

    Hmc415 Member

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    EXACTLY. kawhi got to take off what? 1/4 of the season? That's tons of rest while everyone else is limping into the playoffs
     
  4. Hmc415

    Hmc415 Member

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    LeBron did pretty well against them. Idk bout now but in previous series against gsw
     
  5. Hmc415

    Hmc415 Member

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    Dame just shot what 3-14 in a elim/closeout game? He's just lucky he had cj going off for 30+
     
    Denovo likes this.
  6. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    does that take away from everything else he's done in the playoffs including clutch shots. I'd say no
     
  7. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    Howbout the difference between the rockets without their best player vs other playoff teams without their best player?
     
  8. YaoMing#1

    YaoMing#1 Member

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    Kd or not I don’t see them getting more than 1 game. And they will get blown out more than once.
     
  9. KrisD

    KrisD Member

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    I don't know about that ... Didn't Portland lose 10 straight Playoff Games before getting to where they are now? Lillard hit a great big shot against OKC because no one was guarding him from 30+ and Westbrook ducked him for most of that series. Also Dame don't get different defenses thrown at him like Harden. I wanna see what Dame does against GSW this series.
     
  10. Gorilladunks

    Gorilladunks Member

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    The difference is Harden has to play the warriors in the postseason
     
  11. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    Bingo

    Plus

    Difference is harden has the heaviest burden to carry among other superstars where the whole org from owner, gm, coach, has beens and role players are totally dependent on him to drag them the farthest
     
    Blurr#7 likes this.
  12. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    that must be the only thing you've seen in this year playoffs
     
  13. KrisD

    KrisD Member

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    Are you saying Dame was getting defended the same way like Harden?
     
  14. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Read the post and try again
     
  15. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Yes. What other juggernaut, that is proving that Harden ain’t that guy and the Rockets strategy is crap, is out there?

    Who has been good enough to even see GS this often in the playoffs?
     
  16. SFbaybum

    SFbaybum Member

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    Mostly agree, but Harden stands out from the pack as someone who likes to dribble the ball between his legs for 18 seconds then create a shot with time running down. That stuff only works for so long in the playoffs.
     
  17. cbs1507

    cbs1507 Member

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    He was 42.9% (70 attempts) on stepback 3s in the playoffs. 38.9% (540 attempts) on stepback 3s in the regular season. Well so much for that.
     
  18. HewbieTrippin

    HewbieTrippin Member

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    I think this year and last year's playoffs has been Harden's best. He's pretty much hit the ceiling of his potential if he continues to play this exact way.

    Does he want to evolve as a player? He's already a superstar imo, but does he want to be the type that takes it to the next level and knocks off other superstars ... ? Even if it requires significant changes to his game/approach? I really don't know if the MDA system for him maximizes his potential overall (and not just the regular season), because you could make the point that he was a more overall player with where he got his touches/shots in the McHale era.

    But as the original post mentioned, the thing that has been consistent is how low his FG% has been in the playoffs and the dip in FTA.

    I think he deserves credit overall for how well he played against GS just now (check his fg% ... way higher than it's ever been in the post-season, and it being against elite defenders). But I can't help but wonder if the play style being so ball-dominant is because his teammates are trash or if it's because it's the only way he wants to play/knows how to play now. It's probably been a mixture of both. But at the same time he's extremely slow on his passes out of traps ... by the time it gets to the open guy, their defender has recovered already.
     
  19. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    Holy mother of **** there are some dumb ass threads in here. Context is incredibly important when evaluating players and that’s a fact largely lost on people who just want to b**** on Harden. If Harden played like Steph Curry did in the first 4 games the Rockets get swept by Utah.
     
  20. N2bnfunn

    N2bnfunn Member

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    NO HEART and NO killer instinct
     

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