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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Absolutely.
    On top of it the DUP has refused to come to agreement with Sinn Feinn to open the Stormont. They are 2 years in a deadlock.
    Without the NI parliament, they will be under the direct rule of London in case of the no deal that they are supporting.

    Sinn Fein, the political part of IRA, the paramilitaries will cause a rebellion if we are back to direct rule by Westminster.

    This is a clear case of seeing the trees and failing to see the forest. They want to abolish the GFA without realising the obvious that it will cause Reunification.

    Anyway they just announced they will vote against May and refuse to abstain.
    Not surprising since it was a one way street for them.
    If they sold out, they would better off folding the tent and abolishing their party altogether.
     
  2. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    So, Here are the vote totals: (B) Leave the EU without a deal on April 12 - moved by Tory MP John Baron; Ayes: 160; Noes: 400

    (D) The UK would join the EFTA, remain in the EEA and single market and enter a customs arrangement until a solution to the Irish border is found - moved by Tory MP Nick Boles; Ayes: 88; Noes: 283

    (H) Norway model, without a customs union (EEA and EFTA) - moved by Tory MP George Eustace; Ayes: 65; Noes: 377

    (J) Leave the EU with a UK-wide customs union - moved by Tory MP Ken Clarke; Ayes: 264; Noes: 272

    (K) Permanent customs union, including alignment wit the single market on future EU rights and regulations - moved by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn; Ayes: 237; Noes: 307

    (L) Revoke Article 50 if a no deal Brexit is explicitly approved by MPs a day before Britain is due to leave the EU - moved by SNP MP Joanna Cherry; Ayes: 184; Noes: 293

    (M) Any withdrawal agreement must be put to the public in a “confirmatory’ second referendum - moved by abour MP Dame Margaret Beckett; Ayes: 268; Noes: 295

    (O) If no withdrawal agreement is agreed, to seek a “standstill” agreement with the EU while negotiating a trade deal - moved by Tory MP Marcus Fysh; Ayes: 139; Noes: 422

    The two week extension also passed 441-105. Other than the two week extension, they voted no on everything, yet again.

    Meanwhile, the default is to leave the EU on April 12, 2019 with no deal.

    16 days to go. Tick tock.
     
  3. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Results are out.
    Not ONE got the majority. :D:D:D They agreed on nothing.
    There were 2-3 that needed only about 10-30 votes to get it.

    Useless
    On Monday they may get to vote again on fewer of them.
     
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  4. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    So it’s a hard Brexit?
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The default position is to leave the EU on April 12, 2019 with no deal. Unless they vote affirmatively to hold a second referendum, revoke Brexit or to approve Theresa May's twice defeated deal with the EU, that is presumably what will happen. But they have voted no on a second referendum several times, most recently this evening, and they voted down a revocation motion tonight as well. So make of that what you wish.
     
  6. malakas

    malakas Member

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    May is called to resign because she got her cabinet MPs to vote against each and every proposition to make her deal appear the only way forward.

    LOL What a clown.
    They will vote on them again on Monday.
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

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    No.
     
  8. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    imagine wanting to be ruled by this guy

     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    That's a random MEP, yes? How is that any different than wanting to be "ruled" by a random Senator like Mike Lee, who talks about how the solution to everything in the world is to fall in love and have babies?
     
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  10. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

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    What do we want? NOTHING

    When do we want it? NOW

    The UK parliament is just so desperate to avoid being responsible for anything
     
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  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Yesterday both Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Moog were talking about possibly voting for the deal on Friday on the third go-around, if Theresa May can manage to have it called up for a vote. This is of course being made more difficult by House Speaker John Berow, who has ruled against voting on this motion, yet again, and consistently made remarks yesterday during the indicative vote session doubling, tripling and quadrupling down on that position.

    Today Boris Johnson is apparently going around telling everyone that her deal "is dead anyway".

    Boris Johnson declares May's deal DEAD - but PM pushes on for final vote

    The former foreign secretary has told friends the Withdrawal Agreement “is dead anyway”, according to the London Evening Standard. Mrs May’s hopes of passing her divorce deal are hanging by a thread as leading eurosceptics vow to vote against it while the influential Democratic Unionist Party continue to oppose the Prime Minister. The government is planning to hold a Brexit debate likely followed by a vote tomorrow, but any such vote would not be 'meaningful'.​

    So everything else has been voted down, in most cases multiple times, as is also the case with this deal.

    What is left to do besides leaving with no deal on April 12, 2019? If you can think of anything that is not absurd and or that invokes what effectively amount to 'unicorns', please do share.
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

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    LOL. You truly are delusional.
     
  13. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Oliver Letwin, the MP who lead the 'takeover' of Parliament yesterday for the indicative votes (all of which failed to pass) now says that Brexit with no deal on April 12, 2019 is the most likely option:

    No-deal Brexit on April 12 is UK's most likely option right now: lawmaker Letwin

    LONDON (Reuters) - A no-deal Brexit on April 12 is the most likely scenario right now for Britain, Conservative Party lawmaker Oliver Letwin said on Thursday.

    “I think that at some point or other we either have to get a deal across the line or accept that we have to find an alternative if we want to avoid no deal on April 12, which I think at the moment is the most likely thing to happen,” Letwin, the architect of a series of votes on alternatives to Prime Minister Theresa May’s Brexit deal, told BBC radio.

    If Britain wants to hold a referendum or an election it would need to delay Brexit by at least several months but it is unclear if parliament would vote for such a long extension, Letwin said.​

    If anyone disagrees with this assessment, please share what you think the most likely option is, ideally with some explanation for why you think that.
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    A key ally of Angela Merkel and a member of Merkel's CDU party has clarified the options available to the UK as alternatives to leaving the EU on April 12 with no deal.

    Germany wades into Westminster chaos - ‘Only 3 OPTIONS exist!'

    A key ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel has urged Britain to proceed with its departure from the bloc and stated there are now only three options available. Detlef Seif, a member of Ms Merkel’s CDU party, insists the UK has to either agree a deal, revoke Article 50 or delay Brexit.

    Mr Seif said: “The discussion in the United Kingdom has created the impression that a lot of options for action are possible. But only three options exist: To agree to the deal that is on the table, to revoke the withdrawal notification, or to delay the exiting day.”

    He also maintained a delay to Brexit will result in the UK having to take part in the European Parliament Elections. Mr Seif added: “We must urge our British friends that a delay is only possible if the UK takes part in the European parliament elections.”​

    So the three options are 1) agreeing to the deal that Theresa May negotiated with the EU, 2) revoking Article 50 and 3) participating in the EU parliamentary elections in order to hold a second referendum. And they have already voted against all three options, and against options 1 & 3 on two separate ocassions.
     
  15. Major

    Major Member

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    The likeliest option is avoiding no-deal at all-cost regardless of what other option is chosen. Not only is this the likeliest option, it is 100% what will happen. No-deal will not happen.
     
  16. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Mike lee was born into the united states of america, this former decade long prime minister of belgium wants to form a united states of europe. Something that doesnt exist. the fact that you see this guy as a senator, means you fundamentally don;t understand the arugment. Both as federal europe doesnt exist, and that the parliament he sits on now is the lower house. The european council is where he previously was.
     
  17. Major

    Major Member

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    So what? He's some random dude that has no power to do what he wants to do. Europeans are "ruled" by him as much as Americans are "ruled" by Mike Lee or Steve King or any other random representative. Besides, George Washington, British subject, wanted to form a United States of America which didn't exist. Unless lots of other leaders and the people of those places agree, it's all pretty meaningless.
     
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  18. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    So he's a massive figure in moving the federalization forward with great influence and you both seem to not know who he is or what the argument is. Therefore I don't understand why you so strongly hold your views or why you are even in here.
     
  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Ayes to the right - 286
    Noes to the left - 344

    The deal fails to pass, yet again.

    Next.
     
  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    It is starting to appear that even the EU is seeing the writing on the wall. Now that Theresa May's deal has been voted down, yet again, Brexit with no deal is clearly appearing to be the most likely scenario, in no small part because it is the default scenario. Of course the two other alternatives, revoking Article 50 or a second referendum (which will require the UK's participation in the May 23-26 Parliamentary elections) were both voted down on Wednesday.

    No deal Brexit is default scenario: Barnier’s man tells MPs ‘Conclude the process’

    Stefaan de Rynck, from the European Union’s Article 50 task force, suggested MPs should vote for the Withdrawal Agreement tonight in order to “conclude the process”.

    The diplomat said: “We are now in a situation where we need… to start to conclude this process now in a way that avoids a no deal and if the process does not conclude the no deal remains the default scenario.”

    Mr de Rynck added it does not matter how many times MPs say they don’t want no deal, Brexit needs to happen in order for discussions to begin on the future relationship with the EU. He said: “No matter how many times you indicatively vote, it doesn’t stop it. At some point the process needs to conclude… to start the future relationship with the EU.”​

    So no deal is the default and there is currently no legitimate alternative on the table that has not been voted down already.
     

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