New Zealand to Ban all Military Style Semi Automatic Weapons Immediately

As if that will happen either... but why not try for both? What political capital is wasted on universal background checks (supported by the large majority of Americans)?

 

Pro gun people vote and won't accept a republican led Senate and White House doing anything on gun control. Some are even mad over the the bump stock ban.

 

Lmao. You’re throwing a hissy fit over background checks. Really shows how insane our society is over guns though..

 

The chicken little mentality is senseless. Guns are not good. Nor are they bad. They should be used and maintained properly. Claiming gun owners is what keeps the government in check is about as silly as banning assault weapons to prevent mass shootings. They are both extremely poor arguments with little thought touted by people with small imaginations. The key reason why these two arguments are idiotic for the crux of the debate is because neither deal with the real issue at hand. Arming every citizen is not going to keep our vulnerable society in check should it collapse just like banning assault weapons will do very little in the grand scheme to reduce gun violence.

If we want to reduce gun violence, we need to keep guns out of the hands of irresponsible people. Our current laws do the exact opposite. We should mandate people to prove they are responsible instead of waiting to prove they are irresponsible to revoke their rights.

 

I disagree with your characterization about my posts regarding background checks (from another thread) as a "hissy fit." In all honesty I have no problem with the concept of "universal background checks," it is the current form of background checks for private firearm transfers that I have a BIG problem with.

At any rate that's a different topic from the abolition and compulsory seizure (compensated or not) of entire classes of firearms which I take it is the subject of the New Zealand discussion in this thread.

here's what I wrote about background checks for private transfers in that other thread:

 

No I didn't say it is keeping them in check. The govt is not sitting there cursing our gun owners, as if they would do something if we didn't have them. It is merely an insurance policy should a militia be needed if it does need to be put into check or we are invaded by a foreign power. I promise you I am not imagining Red Dawn or some communist sitting at the head of a shadowy boardroom table scheming to take the guns to instate communism. However, if things go Red, and people begin to be put under the boot of fascist rule or something, then yeah they'd be wishing they hadn't given them up if they did. It isn't complicated if you consider the role of a well armed militia in modern warfare and past.

 

So, basically, gun ownership should be allowed, but more care should be taken to ensure that only good and responsible people can own guns?

Makes sense to me... here are some common-sense changes that can help make sure only responsible people can purchase guns:

• Things like Universal Background Checks which will help make sure that the people buying guns are responsible and that the guy that buys a gun from a gun show (or private party) is just as responsible as one that buys a gun from a dealer.
• Things like longer wait periods to help law enforcement better check potential gun owners to ensure the gun owner is responsible.
• Things like standardized background and wait periods nationwide, to ensure that its just as easy to ensure that a gun owner in Alabama is just as responsible as a gun owner in California.
• Things like "red flag" laws that help law enforcement keep guns out of the hands of people that are known to be irresponsible. And one of those red flags should revolve around mental health... reverse trump's bill to that revoked Obama's regulation that made it more difficult for people with mental illnesses to purchase firearms.

 

Good for New Zealand. Different culture more than anything. The 2nd amendment is an excuse to not consider sensible reform. When you can't get universal background check, something 80-90% of the public support, there is a real problem with democracy and failure of leadership.

p.s. if machine guns were not banned in 1986, could it be banned today? Probably not. I think we have loss our mind and become nutty about guns these days.

 

I'm familiar with this talking point. I think it is bupkis. Gun control measures have not been critical to the establishment of dictatorships, including communist dictatorships. After the October Revolution, there was a 3-year civil war in Russia and by the time the communists won there were 5 million people running around with guns and combat experience. During France's Reign of Terror, they dramatically increased the production of guns and ammo and the country was flooded with armed irregulars (and deserters) and they still had dictatorship. Most African countries have little control over gun ownership and they have many dictatorships. Most of the Arab Spring was conducted without guns. Its best success was Tunisia, which ousted a dictator with mostly nonviolent street protest. Egypt also succeeded with nonviolent protest before sliding back into dictatorship. And you could say maybe more would have succeeded with guns. But then you see Syria, where the opposition was armed by us and they're getting slaughtered. You can see Libya where they toppled a dictator with a lot of American help, but now the country is in chaos with armed militias and terrorist groups fighting for control. Looking at history, I don't think the gun is actually any guarantor of freedom, but actually quite the opposite. It prevents people from finding compromise and coalescing a national purpose. If, as you imagine, we were occupied by a foreign power or governed by a fascist, we will actually be better served by nonviolence than by armed resistance.

Man, I read the whole thing to figure out what was so "chilling" about Democrats being happy to see gun control happen in another country, and it never told me!

 

The New Zealand people have carried themselves well throughout this ordeal...

 

Will Old Zealand follow the lead and pass similar restrictions?

 

Wait looking at history? When you cherry pick it. Go read about the Soviet Union. They took the guns and the rest is history bro. I wonder how non-violent protest worked out against people who don't value human life. Go read some more history before you push that angle. This story plays out over and over again in history.

Also, there are other arguments to be made about a man's given right to defend himself, his family, and his property. This was written with those reasons as well. Do you think it would be bad to deny a legal gun owner the ability to defend himself against a criminal who obtained his gun illegally? Should you let that person, and their family, be at the mercy of a criminal who means them harm.

There are many reasons guns are a positive for America. And just saying that there was a shooting, some rare event, we should punish legal gun owners, just doesn't cut it. Taking rights away is never the answer.

 

Lol, I literally have a degree in Soviet history.

 

Why did you pick that?

 

It's a bit of a derail and a perhaps a tedious story. I went to a college that didn't offer "practical" degrees like accounting or engineering. In retrospect, I should have done economics, because I find it so interesting (and useful) now. But, I was interested in history then; it's like the study of human sin. My high school education had plenty of American and English history since it was a pretty standard ethnocentric education. But I grew up in the 1980s. And as a kid hearing a lot of Evil Empire rhetoric from Ronald Reagan, and being a contrarian by nature, I thought there must be more to the story of Russian communism than I was being told. So when I got to college and found the academic freedom to study literally whatever, I saw an opportunity to really get under the things people told me I should think about the USSR and instead have my own understanding. I wrote my junior thesis on the White Army in the Caucuses and my senior thesis on Gorbachev's agricultural reforms before he become GS. I also took some classes on Chinese communism (plus a couple history classes unrelated to communists because I could). And I guess all that worked. For me as a person, it was very valuable, though for me as a contributor to society it was pretty short-sighted. I didn't speak Russian and I'm terrible learning languages besides, so it wouldn't be smart to do more Soviet stuff in graduate school. And when I applied for jobs, interviewers would say, "So, Soviet history... what did you expect to do with that?" But, Ianded on my feet eventually, later got an MBA, and somehow have stayed employed anyway.

 

Well, I respect you for following your interests. Very much an interesting choice too.

 

Ban handgns. It will take years to collect them all, and that's ok. Gotta start somewhere.

 

... what? lol Are you joking?

 

No. Not at all. If you want to stop violence in America you start with handguns.