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GOP is against education for non-wealthy, tax tuition waiver for grad students, college employees

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Carl Herrera, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    I think the likelier thing is that this change was dreamt up by a conservative think tank that finds tax exemptions for valuable payments-in-kind to be ideologically distasteful Juan Valdez, the same think tanks that thinks hedge fund income and capital gains should be taxed at a lower rate, no doubt.
     
  2. Major

    Major Member

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    Lobbyists didn't write this element - the GOP did, in an effort to find pay-for items to prevent the cost from going over $1.5 trillion for the corporate giveaways - which, I agree, lobbyists largely influenced.

    But this garbage, along with the things like changing 401k deductions and stock options taxing, have no lobbyists - they are things 100% found by the GOP.

    Beyond that, I'm not sure how "the GOP is just doing lobbyists' bidding!" is a justification for any of this. When there was a Dem majority and Dem POTUS, you didn't see these things being cut.
     
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  3. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    no justification, it's terrible as always from washington. but to act like this will change in 3-7 years is ridiculous. why do you think bernie was sabotaged by the dnc? no one who is really serious about financial inequality in america will ever sniff the office let alone win. and need i remind you that the economic inequality exploded under 8 years under obama. you'll probably blame the majority but my point stands. you act like a blue majority and office is "progress" but i see it as just slightly less bullshit. the socio-economic, financial, tax, income, etc... systems are still really facked and broken.
     
  4. Major

    Major Member

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    Except we *saw* a Democratic majority just 7-8 years ago. It didn't play out the way you suggest. Note, as an example, Frank-Dodds and its vehement opposition from the financial industry and the ... GOP. Or the CFPB which has actual hard numbers of dollars returned to show it's impact in the protection of consumers. Saying "both sides are the same!" is (a) false and (b) lazy.

    Yes, that tends to happen in massive financial collapses.

    Outside of non-sensical platitudes, can you explain how Dodd-Frank or the Obama tax changes weren't helpful for the average person or equally bad as this tax plan?
     
  5. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    not equal, not enough is my point. it's always what corporate interests will allow period. but let's keep arguing about the scraps because it's distracting, causes division (less strength), and that's how they keep their power.
     
  6. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    elimination of deductions allows for lower rates for all, regardless of lifestyle choices
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

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    Except that's not what's happening here. Eliminations of certain deductions are being used to pay for the permanence of the corporate tax cuts, as well as all sorts of corporate carve outs. The reason for these eliminations is to raise money *after* the 10 year period, so the Senate can show budget "balance". This is the period when the individual tax rates return to their original levels while the corporate tax rate stays low.

    Nice try, though.
     
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  8. Major

    Major Member

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    "they" keep their power because people like you fail to make important distinctions and end up numbing yourself and others to actual policy differences have an impact by acting like they are all the same.
     
  9. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    Say that to Bernie supporters I dare you.
     
  10. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Bootstraps. Take them, and pull in a upward motion.
     
  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    By eliminating the nation's leadership position in science, we will actually start believing that this physical action could work. :D
     
  12. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    Oh I completely agree they've made a dog's breakfast of it. If you are going to eliminate deductions, you have to lower overall rates such that the net tax burden won't increase. They didn't do that.

    It's incredible how much bad policy is promoted to appease the CBO gods. Voters dgaf about the CBO or their arbitrary accounting algorithms. GOP is terrified of CBO projections (and the Dems were as well with ACA).

    Here's a simple tax bill, cut every single rate of every type of tax there is, and then cut spending as well. Not that hard.
     
    Major likes this.
  13. superfob

    superfob Mommy WOW! I'm a Big Kid now.

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    Except spending on military was increased?

    Hard to cut spending when you do the opposite.
     
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  14. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    How in the world can people justify this as "American"? Things that limit upward social mobility and reinforce an oligarchy are inherently un-American.
     
  15. Buck Turgidson

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    Well, somebody got out their usual "HS Sophomore Libertarian Economic Theory For Dummies" book.
     
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  16. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    What about the social mobility of the upper 1%? How would they get to the top 0.1% when they are being taxed so heavily?
     
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  17. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    It is notable that the private planes tax exemption stays in the GOP bill. The measly $250 exemption for teachers buying class supplies is eliminated. So they don't mind some exemption.
     
  18. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    The private planes tax is a red herring - it's not a tax deduction and is just a political talking point. Here's a good article on why Sherrod Brown, of all people, supports it:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/senate-tax-bill-break-private-jets_us_5a0f563be4b0e97dffed3e5a

    All it does is basically clarify & codify current rules that resulted from an IRS interpretation a while back. Bad optics, yes. Bad policy? Not really.

    Private plane operators aren’t actually getting any new tax break here. Indeed, the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan congressional panel that examines tax legislation, says the plane break won’t actually cost anything. The industry and their backers in the Senate, including the super liberal Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), explain that the provision merely brings clarity to a long-standing tax dispute, kicked off five years ago by a memo from the Internal Revenue Service.

    The provision makes clear that the companies that manage private air travel ― plane owners use them to hire pilots or handle logistics ― do not have to pay a 7.5 percent excise tax on air travel. The 7.5 percent tax is also known as a “ticket tax” and Americans pay it when they travel commercial.

    This doesn’t mean private air travel isn’t subject to taxes, there’s just a different kind of tax ― a fuel surcharge that amounts to around 20 cents per gallon of gas. Planes burn through 300 gallons an hour.

    Think of it like how car owners pay gas taxes but if you take a taxi, you pay a different fee, said Nel Stubbs, an aviation tax expert at Conklin & de Decker Aviation Information, an aviation research and consulting company.

    “I’ve been doing this a long time and it’s not giving owners a tax break, it’s clarifying the application of a tax,” she added.


    ...

    “This provision in no way cuts taxes for private jet owners,” said spokesperson Jennifer Donohue. “It simply clarifies what the law already says — that service companies made up of mechanics and service workers don’t pay ticket taxes, because they don’t sell tickets.”
     
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  20. Major

    Major Member

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    The bad policy is being promoted by the Senate. CBO numbers only apply in an official way because the Senate is trying to pass this through reconciliation rules.

    Beyond that, the CBO just provides information. Do you think they should just ignore cost and impacts on the deficits? How else do you determine whether your spending cuts are balanced with revenue cuts? Or are you now in the "debt doesn't matter" category again since Dems aren't in charge?
     

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