A more interesting stat would be to calculate points-per-series * #series. Games played per series should be higher for LeBron, which inflates his overall point total.
Good god I'm glad reporters aren't reporting this accomplishment the way we are on here. This is amazing, but he's still going. I mean, if some player ended their 12 year career with regular season totals like this, we'd say that player had a pretty decent career. But this is just the playoffs for LeBron.
LeBron James has never been eliminated in the first round. Jordan has gone out in the first round 3 times. LeBron has a .520 eFG%, Jordan was a .503 eFG% shooter. Jordan had 37 career playoff series. LeBron has had 40 playoff series. So Jordan has 161.8 point per series. LeBron has 149.9 points per series. LeBron has played 5.3 games per series and Jordan has 4.8 games per series. But again, Jordan has been swept twice while LeBron was swept once but in the Finals. Jordan got swept out of the first round in two sets of best of five series. So his being swept twice should look bad and be a detractor but it makes it look like Jordan was sweeping the other team. Also, LeBron has never played in a best of five series. Jordan played in a whole bunch of them, but Jordan is better because of fewer games played? That's bull-isht and what I said above proves it. But does any of this really matter? They're both fantastic and have won a lot of games both in the regular season and the playoffs. LeBron has almost nothing in common with Tracy McGrady's NBA career, but Jordan knows how it feels to be like Tracy. LeBron has more than 700 rebounds and 400 assists than Jordan, but only points matter, right? Points and championship rings? And how many series you did it in? Who cares that Jordan was shooting 25 times a game and LeBron shoots 20 a game?
lebron's playoff stats in points, rebounds, and assists are better in all 3 categories than hubert davis's 12 year career and tracy murray's (should this be in the GARM?) 12 year career. his stats are almost exactly the same in all 3 categories as deshawn stevenson's. pretty amazing. playing in the east, staying healthy, being durable as hell (7 straight finals appearances?), and having insane stats will do that to a person.
Here we go again with the MJ defense crew. MJ also got lucky which powerhouse dynasty team did he beat in his era? Bad Boy Pistons are older than him and close to retiring when MJ and his crew reached their prime, same with Bird and Magic they were already on the tail end of their career when MJ appeared. If MJ was born on the exact same time as Isiah Thomas, Bird and Magic would he have been so dominant he would've won 6 rings on two three peat runs? Forget Magic and Bird, if Hakeem had a decent team around him he would've likely been the GOAT and not MJ, dude was playing with an injured Ralph Sampson and a team of crackheads for most of his career. Great players' success will always involve a lot of luck and perfect timing. Just congratulate Lebron for his accomplishment and don't be a debbie downer and add *s to everything for god's sake.
Thanks for gathering the detailed numbers. My point is that LeBron has played a bunch of long series, especially in the first round where he's playing best out of 7. So looking at career playoff points isn't really an apples to apples comparison any longer. Instead of taking career playoff points, why not take career playoffs PPG and multiply by number of series played. This removes series length from the equation, which shouldn't factor in to how successful the player was overall in the playoffs (at least not as a primary factor). Result: Jordan: 33.4 * 37 = 1235.8 LeBron: 28.3 * 40 = 1132 LeBron is awesome, but let's not elevate his stature based on inflated statistics. If you want to also account for wins vs losses in the final rating, I'd take the above results and multiply by series win% for each player. Jordan won 31 out of 38 series played, LeBron has won 32 out of 40 series played (so far). Jordan: 1235.8 * (31/38) = 1008.2 LeBron: 1132 * (32/40) = 905.6 (LeBron has never lost in the first round. True. It's also true that Jordan never lost in the finals (6-0).)
If Lebron takes down the greatest team ever assembled.....again....then we have to put him in Jordan territory. Period.
Jordan was losing to the Boston Celtics at the height of their powers and the Bad Boy Pistons. LeBron has played cupcakes in 80% of his playoff victories. LeBron's playoff competition has been so much laughably easier, it's stupid to even compare their playoff totals. Having said that, if LeBron takes down the Warriors again, with Durant, the GOAT discussion may have to start happening. That doesn't change the fact that his cumulative playoff numbers have been inflated by having as free pass every year in the first 2 rounds.
yeah but does Lebron make shoes with Bugs bunny and Marvin the Martian? Time flies. Seems like yesterday Lebron accidentally fell into deke's elbow.
Compared to LeBron, Jordan was a chucker. Who cares how many points Jordan had when he put up 25 shots a game? Playing basketball is about all facets, not just points. Jordan had some great teams, but he was never on Hakeem's level of doing a lot of everything. Jordan couldn't even protect the paint if you gave him a third arm. His limitations are huge compared to LeBron's but only PPG matter? That's friggin stupid. 1. LeBron 2. Jordan He was not a god. He was a quitter. Quit twice. Taught Scotty Quitten everything he knows and Quitten brought his lessons to Houston.
Who said that? I'm arguing that career points scored in the playoffs is dumb for the purpose of player comparison, and offering an alternative that to me is a better way of comparing players on the basis of career scoring proficiency in the playoffs. As for who is the better overall player, that's a different question. I think the answer should be fairly obvious to anyone who watched both players in their prime, but I'll leave that discussion to a different thread.
I'm not a Jordan worshiper. But you are changing the subject when the argument of inflated stats was presented. This thread is about career playoffs points, not about other facets of the game or whether he quit on his team. If I were going to argue for LeBron over Jordan, I'd start with his bad teams in the first Cleveland stint. Other than that, the "more games easier opponents" argument against LeBron is hard to dismiss.
Jordan took an inflated 25% more shots per game. You can spin this many ways, but what's wrong with respecting LeBron's amazing accomplishment?
Nothing wrong with respecting LeBron's accomplishment. But you can say the same thing about Jordan's accomplishments (which you don't seem to respect very much), or Westbrook's triple double, or Wilt's 100-point game, or Kareem's career total points, etc. etc. Look, I don't like either guy. One is an egotistic prick and the other is an entitled snob. And I have always maintained that Jordan should not be automatically crowned as the GOAT forever with no chance of being bettered. But I respect that they are two of the greatest players that have ever played the game. I don't believe there is a totally objective way to compare players from different eras.
Good point. The truly important thing here is that we all know Hakeem was the better playoff performer. That's why Hakeem was the number one pick, that's why he beat the showtime lakers when Jordan was getting swept. (I've seen Jordan play live quite a few times in Chicago/Washington and countless times on TV. He's no Akeem. He just had excellent teammates that almost went to the Finals without him by taking the Eastern Conference champs to 7 games. Without Hakeem, the Rockets get lotto picks year after year.) I do have mad respect for Jordan in one way: That and his competitive spirit.
three notes. watching jordan on buzzer-beaters is amazing. he's just so calm, cool, and collected and just gets to his spot and rises up. like it's the middle of the 2nd period. on #2, mj in the huddle is hilarious. like "yeah phil, draw up whatever you want to. i'm just going to get the ball and hit the buzzer beater." also on #2. the final score was 84-82! for anyone who complains about there not being enough defense now, just remember final scores like that. when duncan retired a spurs/pistons finals game came on and it was something like 73-69 with 2 minutes to go. yeesh. bonus 4th note. seeing the bryon russell push again made it seem like it was barely anything. russell would've been nowhere close to contesting that shot either way.
Haha, Russell's momentum was not taking him 3 steps away from Jordan. Most of that push came from his shoulder, but we're not changing history. The shot was made and counted.
https://jazzfanatical.wordpress.com...ks-michael-jordans-push-off-on-bryon-russell/ I like Stockton's take on it: Did Michael Jordan push off on Bryon Russell? John Stockton: Oh, yes. I wouldn’t have called it, by the way. I mean, I want to make sure you hear that. I wouldn’t have called it. I mean, basketball’s about getting leverage and gaining advantages…Sure there’s tucking. There’s holding. There’s bumping. There’s shouldering. Everything. Yes, he pushed. Would I have called it? Absolutely not. It was a good play on his part, heck of a shot. (WGN 720)
Why not just look at shot attempts as well? LeBron broke this record and took 100 less shots than Jordan to do it. He also had 400 more assists in the same sample size. Jordan simply shot the ball more. LeBron was a more willing passer, and still broke the record without having to put up as many shot attempts. That's amazing.
TS% is very close, with LeBron with a bit of an edge (both around 57 TS% in the playoffs). Jordan is easily the greater scorer, even if one may naively have the opposite impression looking at total points scored in the playoffs. LeBron has other attributes that surpass Jordan. I'm not trying to take away from that.
