It must be nice to get paid 72 million for an internship on how to become an NFL quarterback.

I mean, I expected some growing pains. I just didn't expect him to have guys like Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Cody Kessler, Brian Hoyer and Sam Bradford outplaying him by the bye week.

Very few if any QBs in the league have a perfect O-line, I get so tired of hearing that excuse.

This is getting to the point where I'd rather see him throw for 380, 3 TD and 1 INT in a loss rather than see him throw for 215, 1 TD and 1 INT in a win.

 

It's a pretty long limit given the circumstances... but probably fair. I think the circumstances are a little bit different than fresh out of college rookie QB. Where you certainly give 32 weeks unless its clear they are absolutely putrid from the get go. Like Carr, Bridgewater, etc.

The difference here is that there was certainly expectation that Brock would come in with some experience as an NFL QB... since he had that experience, both for years on the side watching and learning from an all time great, and with actual starts under his belt.

So it's probably fair. If he continues on his current path he still gets the benefit of the doubt as the "incumbent" starter and management works to fix the o-line and get everyone on the same page and see how year 2 starts.

But I think as you note it's a VERY VERY short leash, and, as importantly, if the team is in a position, even in the first round, but in any round, where they really have a QB rated highly that hasn't been picked yet, they have to make that move. Or if Savage appears to be really nipping on Brock's heals, you have to start toying with giving him some more opportunity.

Absolutely. I get why its too early to say definitively he just isn't very good, but it has to be a clear option. At this point it has to be the #1 option, honestly. At this point he isn't very good. That's option 1. Looking at comparisons to other "middling" type QBs that might have some good years is a good way to consider the other options - that he can get better be it time, knowledge, experience, system, whatever.

It's not just Schaub. Lots of first year QBs are good, above average, great... out of the gate. Rodgers was great his first full season (yes, he had a spattering of starts over the prior 3 years). Dak. Wilson. Big Ben. Romo. Matt Ryan. There's some that start great and then fizzle (RG3, Kapernick). There's lots that start slow and go on to become great. There's Peyton, with his 28 interceptions his first year but obvious crazy good talent.

There's no real blueprint or recipe here, which is why every year scouts are so divided on which QB to take, coaches and GMs are divided on when to start them, etc.

The only test is the actual on the field test. And while circumstance certainly plays a role there, ultimately the talent shines through, imo.

The eye test with Brock is really hard, imo. Nothing stands out as exceptional. But many things stand out as not nearly as bad as the numbers look. He has solid QB presence. He can get the ball down the field. He seems to have intelligence. A ton of his mistakes seem to be pure focus on Hopkins and/or not moving to the second read. The offense play-calling has been interesting at best. Things that it would seem are fixable with more time. Alternatively, it seems like he should already be much better at disguising his reads. It seems like him and Hopkins should have a much better connection by now. It seems like he should do a much better job and varying his snap count (something I can't even recall seeing him do once).

So who knows... if I'm a betting man, I don't see Brock every being much more than a mid-tier QB in the league. There are too many others who are either amazing, HOF level QBs, or excel in one or two areas despite perhaps not being great in other areas.

 

You might want to stop watching football if you really think Keenum, Kessler, Bradford, Bortles, or Hoyer have been better. Keenum is garbage and always will be. Bortles is worse than he was a rookie. Bradford had couple of decent games to start his run w/ the Vikings and now he's back to typical Bradford. Cmon now, I know Brock has been inconsistent and hasn't lived up to the hype, but let's not go full r****d in comparisons. I'll gladly have Brock as my QB than any of those clowns you listed that are "outplaying" him.

 

Welp, you just opened the door to a series of sudden statcast pros. Get ready to be bombarded with numbers and ratings that prove each of those QBs is better and we would be better off with them. Somehow completely overlooking the fact that we had 2 of them and they were in fact much worse.

 

Very few, if any, QBs in the league excel with a BAD O-line.

The Texans O-line has been overall bad this year. Its getting better... and I expect it to continue to improve as most lines tend to gel with more reps.

 

Our pass blocking has been in the top half of the league up to this point. It's definitely not close to being bad.

 

Based on what metric?

Also, its fully expected given that 3/5ths of the expected O-line has (or will have) missed serious time.

 

Based on what metric are you saying that our OLine has been bad? It's all relative to other teams. Most games I have watched this season, I see consistent break downs in the OLine forcing the QB to make a play. It's very commonplace.

Football Outsiders has ranking based on sacks per pass attempt adjusted for down, distance, and strength of opponent. The Texans rank 11th in pass protection.

We started the season terrible in pass protection, but its been a solid 5 weeks of good pass protection.

 

But you have to look at the O-line as one singular unit for all situations (pass protection, run blocking, how they do in short-yardage situations, whether or not they can protect well enough against base/non-blitz situations).

Looking simply at sack numbers is mis-leading.

Given that establishing the run game has been an integral part of setting up what they want to do in the passing game... and that they've been abysmal in the former... leads to a large part of why the passing game has been ineffective, and why teams aren't afraid to bring pressure.

The sack numbers aren't as bad as they could be because Brock, believe it or not, has actually shown a degree of escapability and can get the ball out before a defender brings him down (albeit sometimes he fumbles spontaneously, and often times the throw is nowhere close).

 

True, but were tied for 14 in rush yards per attempt. Again, we can break this down into situational rushing... but there is really nothing indicating that the OLine or the rushing game is holding Brock back. Sure, all these other components could improve or help Brock further, but they aren't the reason Brock is struggling... at least no more than what 95% of other QBs have to deal with. The bottom line is that Brock has enough around him to succeed... and up to this point, its been a disaster.

 

Its a bad to mediocre line that has been inconsistent in every facet of the game. Not many QB's, except for possibly the super-elite, succeed with that. Its not the sole reason for his struggles, but it is a component. The line is far from the original vision of what was intended going into this season.

On the flip-side, mostly all QB's who play behind an exceptional line (Matt Schaub and Dak Prescott included) have the ability to put up tremendous numbers.

Lastly, you mentioned what 95% of the other QBs have to deal with... and that raises the question as to the quality of most of the QB play in the league this year. You really have Brady, Ryan, Brees and Carr.... with Prescott benefitting amazingly from his team's run game and line play. O-line has been a priority for all of those teams... which makes sense, given the investment they have in their QB's.

Again, I'm not making excuses for Brock... who's got a ton of improvement needed. Just saying that the line needs improving as well... regardless of who the QB back there is.

 

Agreed OL is an issue.

Also, even when O'Brien had Foster (for a few games) and a much better OLine with average Fitzpatrick at the helm, the offensive schemes and playcallying didn't seem like anything special.

 

Well, yeah. He's ranked 30th in QBR and all those guys I mentioned are ahead of him. So yeah....they are playing better than him.

I never said I'd prefer any of those guys to Oz. It's just hard to believe he's playing this bad right now. And ironic that so many horrible QBs are actually having better seasons than him so far, including several REAL rookies.

If I told you during training camp that Oz would be ranked 30th in QBR at the bye week, would you have believed it?

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18012897/nfl-coaches-players-everything-line-second-half-2016

 

Bring in competition. Can't waste a top 10 defense every year

 

Sources say Houston is looking at Brad Kaaya among 5 other teams as well

 

Please indulge me, as you often do.

 

Pat Mahomes would be a nice mid round pick also

 

The link is on the "we will never win with Brock as our qb" thread