Which all-time great wing would start a franchise team with?

And...and...only lose 2 games in the playoffs in the process -- going 15-2!!

I am having trouble with this "wing" player label, because PGs are at the Point, not wing. :grin: Should we call it "perimeter" players? That doesn't even sound right for PGs.

 

I'd go Jordan or Magic. Oddly enough Jordan and Magic would still have UPSIDE playing today.

Jordan's aggressive game, dont think he'd value the "passive" 3 point shot. But I read a Jordan shot chart where the shots he took the LEAST of was the corner 3, which today is a BIG part of offense. If Jordan put just a little of his midrange game out to 3, and assisted a couple corner 3's, he'd have even BETTER efficiency or better TEAM efficiency.

Similar with Magic, at the end of his career he developed a decent 3 after winning most his MVP's not shooting many. He'd be like taller CP3 on roids if he shot the decent 3 in his prime.

Those are strategy and gameplanning adjustments not physical adjustments. Bird seemed a good choice, if slow James Harden can succeed than Bird can. But his back wouldnt hold up. Lebron I want 1 more chip or Finals appearance away from the super-team. If current Lebron played in THOSE days he'd be #1 unstoppable though, odd how that works.

Dr J was underrated 2-way player but I dont see him having the pure shooting outside shooting touch. Oscar Robertson is where you get into "give him today's conditioning" but I dont want to project from that.

 

I think Jordan would be just fine with enough attempts. He's smart so he wouldn't be jacking up 3's. In 89-90 he took 3 attempts for 37.6% and in all other years prior to the 3 point line moving up, he didn't take enough attempts to get a rhythm going. I think if you tell him to take a minimum of 3 a game, he'd be around 36% career 3 point shooter. I also think if you take a well known 3 point shooter and have him only shoot 1 a game for an entire season, his % will look awful.

You're right about Magic. It's incredible how he upped his FT% into the 90's and his 3 point shot went up with it. It shows people who make fun of odd unorthodox shots doesn't necessarily mean they can't shoot, just takes more practice for them to be better and also it probably does limit speed and ability to get the shot off. But, there is nothing wrong with having a slow set shot like Magic and only taking wide open 3's.

Dr. J i am a bit torn on. I love the 60's players, and i do think the 70's gets a ton of hatred, but i have to admit everything 70's and before gets into the conversation of needing today's modern training in order for them to make it today. I do love Dr. J though. Those hands and the ability to finish were incredible.

 

Jordan without a doubt. Jordan didn't really have to go out there and recruit and try to build a big 3 ala Lebron. He had Pippen and realized how important that guy was to his success. Jordan did not chase him away like Kobe did to Shaq.

 

^^

Yeah, but if you say Kobe chased off Shaq, we can also say that Jordan would not have left Orlando like Shaq did, too. Shaq definitely had some Wiesel in him. So who's to say a 30+ yr old Shaq doesnt leave a prime MJ after three rings, too?

 

Shaq showed his colors when he bounced from popular team to popular team. He was basically on every single great team of the mid 2000's even if past some of those teams prime of contending...The Lakers, The Heat, The Suns, The Cavs, The Celtics...

BUT leaving Orlando for LA wasn't so much of a leaving to join a ready made team, but it was a move to join a winning franchise that he knew would do anything to get him a championship caliber team. Same thing for Kobe demanding to be drafted by the Lakers(he continues to lie and say the Hornets didn't want him and traded him when everyone knows the real truth about his agent threatening Kobe would play in Europe if he didn't play for the Lakers). Kobe wanted to be drafted by the franchise for the winning moves they would make like sign Shaq a few months later or trade for Gasol when Kobe demanded a trade.

If Jordan had LeBron's mentality, he would have joined Shaq and Kobe and started at SF and won 2 more rings(assuming the Lakers could beat SA in 03), but that's not who MJ is/was. He instead joined the worst team in the league at 38-39 years old. The only real player he helped recruit was a 34 year old Dennis Rodman.

I mean outside of MJ and Pippen, does anyone really look at any of their Bulls teams and think WOW, that team is unstoppable! Grant was an elite offensive rebounder, rodman an elite rebounder, both great in different ways at defense. But pretty much nobodies on offense. Paxson? Spot up shooter. Kerr? Spot up shooter. Jud Buechler? Will Purdue? Bill Wennington? Luc Longley? Old Bill Cartwright? BJ Armstrong? Kukoc was a nice offensive playmaking 6th man but not much of a defender. Ron Harper on bum knees? John Salley? Dickey Simpkins? Randy Brown? Scott Williams? Stacey King?

I mean let's be honest. Those are all bench players AT BEST on mostly any other championship winning team. LeBron's teammates this year were much more talented than majority of those guys. Kobe's/Gasol team had much more talent. The Spurs had much more talent ever ring. The 08 Celtics had tons more talent. The Shaq and Kobe Lakers were loaded with former all star vets that could still play. The Rockets in 94 and Bill Walton's Blazers are the only 2 teams i can think of off the top of my head that had the least talent for any championship team compared to those Bulls. The Rick Barry Warriors too. 79 Sonics? I think they were loaded a lot like the 2000's Pistons.

 

Best Team Ever..Small ball run and Gun...oh they can all hit free throws as well

Hakeem
Lebron
Pippen
Jordan
Steve Nash

 

while they admittedly don't appear unstoppable, we also have to look at the fact that jordan retired and they won 55 games the next season. that's more than like all but 4 rockets seasons ever i think. maybe they regress to 50 or so over the long-term, but jordan + 50 win team is obviously very good.

grant could really drain the mid-range jumper. and rodman was a former defensive-player-of-the-year-who-should-have-lost-to-hakeem-olajuwon who was insane at rebounding. unlike people like bosh and kevin love who might be bigger stars but who can't really fit next to lebron/wade and lebron/kyrie because their biggest strength is volume scoring, grant and rodman perfectly complimented jordan/pippen. grant could spread the floor and rodman had the passing for them to fit in on offense and then they brought so many other things. throw in a kukoc at 6th man, harper playing D, and one of the greatest shooters ever on the perimeter and that's a lot of talent (though it was certainly aging in '98).

certainly offensively, but as mentioned above, love is essentially redundant on offense except that he does do a very good job of spreading the court so it doesn't so much help that he has scoring punch. and love and irving are generally fairly awful on defense.

 

Looks good on paper, but in reality i doubt it. MJ, Nash, Lebron, all of them need the ball in their hands to be effective.

 

"Choppy half motivated Harden can put #like Jordan/Magic ,just imagine if he is motivated ! #final MVP"


Sincerely ;
Patrik Beverly

 

Beverley may kiss Harden's ass as long as he wants to. MJ, Magic >>> Harden

 

apparently, nobody touches MJ, nobody...

 

Older MJ with LeBron works great, b/c LeBron can just be Pippen and be the point forward while MJ gets position in the post to score. Younger MJ works better with Bird IMO.

Hakeem or Kareem
Duncan or KG(both willing to get out of Hakeem or Kareems way in the post)
Bird
Young Jordan
Payton

David Robinson(range and mobility to give MJ space in post)
Larry Bird
LeBron James
Older Jordan
Steph Curry or John Stockton