1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Big 12 Expansion rumors

Discussion in 'Football: NFL, College, High School' started by tinman, Dec 7, 2014.

  1. cdrive

    cdrive Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    7,090
    PUF should be a breathing thing adept to change. It's insane for Tea Sips & Aggies alike to suggest the funds should always and only be for them.

    You have pro UT-Houston people saying in one side of their mouth that UT-Houston is merely a reflection of keeping up with growth in the state of Texas, and then in the other side of their mouth say that the PUF should only be proportioned to UT and A&M now and until the end of time.

    PUF is a state-owned investment fund created to fund and promote higher education in Texas. Just because UT was gifted stewardship during Horse & Buggy Times doesn't mean the PUF and AUF is now somehow there's only. It was created from state grazing leases and tycoon money. It doesn't make someone's great great great grandaddy any more special just because he was given a pile of gold and bonds to throw in a bank and monitor. The original intention was to fund state colleges. That is why it was amended in the mid 20th century to include A&M.

    If you look at the average number of state-funded flagship colleges per state, per population size, you will see how ridiculous it is that Texas as one of the largest populations has only had 2 state universities hoarding all the cash for generations upon generations regardless how the state has grown. In the same way that the Dept. of Justice breaks up monopolies because of their anti-competitive and socialistic characteristics, the state should continue to amend the PUF/AUF much like they did for A&M as more state universities grow & meet criteria. Most states do this, Texas has not.

    UH was brought online as an official state university in the 60s. Since then it has organically grown and competed independently against the 2 state-funded hungry hippos. UH is now the 3rd largest university in the state of Texas and is now recognized as a Tier 1 institution.

    Currently UT gets 2/3rds the pot of cash to A&M's 1/3rd. Lawmakers are putting forth measures to cut UT's portion in half and allocate that to UH. 1/3rd for each: UT, A&M, and UH. It is the opinion of many, educators and lawmakers alike, that this is woefully overdue. UT grabbing land in the middle of the night using PUF funds without state approval is fraudulent, highly predatory, illegal and hostile. It's a thin facade of choice, but the real essence of the move is to eradicate choice and competition.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,414
    Likes Received:
    15,848
    How on earth does that make sense, given that the UT and A&M systems have many more campuses and support many more students than UH? What educators think that it's logical to evenly distribute the money to a university a fraction of the size of the other two?
     
  3. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,726
    Likes Received:
    84,065
    Yes, this is a terrible idea.

    UT has 14 campuses (8 academic, 6 medical), TAMU has 11, UH has 4.
     
  4. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,437
    Likes Received:
    17,075
    I agree that particular approach is misguided. The whole beef everyone has with higher education policy in Texas is the wildly disproportional way in which it is funded. No reason the solution should create the inverse of the same problem.

    Of course everyone should stop for a minute and realize that the whole reason UT and TAMU are the behemoths they are, which now require a lion's share of funding, is because they have been fed beyond a lion's share for a century or so.

    I thought John Whitmire's (D-Houston) quote on the matter was pretty much spot on “If you’ve got that kind of money to speculate in real estate, then maybe you’ve got too much money."
     
    #1104 DonnyMost, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
  5. cdrive

    cdrive Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    7,090
    You guys are only proving how the generations of disproportionate favoring has allowed the UT product (and A&M product) to spread like giant salvinia. That's what the funds are sustaining, conquest and state domination. If the conversation can just be had and the laws finally amended that UH (and potentially additional public states colleges) should have a portion of the PUF/AUF, then Texas's higher education will stop looking like a Pepsi-Coke challenge. It's good for Texas and good for Texas higher education. Wherever you slice the cake, I agree it should be done with sharp cutlery and not blunt karate chops.

    Back to the main point, no way now how UH will make concessions about the UT-Houston expansion in back channels as a way to get into the Big 12. Two separate things, and it would be disastrous for UH to be that shortsighted.
     
  6. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,726
    Likes Received:
    84,065
    Right, and I agree with all of this.

    Unless you have a time machine (I know UH has a great physics program so...) this kind of a moot point.
     
  7. Madmanmetz

    Madmanmetz Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,078
    Likes Received:
    2,445
    Rarely do I agree with a politician but John is right on point.
     
  8. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    97,944
    Likes Received:
    40,563
    If there is a UT Houston, would there be sports teams?
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,726
    Likes Received:
    84,065
    Do chess, ping-pong and video games count? It's a research facility.
     
  10. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    97,944
    Likes Received:
    40,563
    they have video games on ESPN now. maybe kids won't go to the UC at UH and skip to UT Houston.
     
  11. SuperBeeKay

    SuperBeeKay Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,185
    Likes Received:
    258
    I've heard one of the reasons why the purchase was made before notifying the state was so that the prices on the land weren't driven up. The land can always be re-sold.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,172
    Likes Received:
    112,815
    So? That doesn't make it appropriate or right.

    Further there have also been some that claim they over paid for the land.

    Whether the land can or cannot be resold is irrelevant.
     
  13. SuperBeeKay

    SuperBeeKay Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,185
    Likes Received:
    258
    I would think that buying the land and then awaiting the state's decision and then being able to re-sell it is much more cost efficient than allowing the land of the price to be jacked up. They haven't built anything on it so what is up with the outrage lol. Let's just await the state's decision. Hoping another university opens up in Houston.
     
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,172
    Likes Received:
    112,815
    I don't have any outrage over it, I am not a UH graduate.

    The point is that they unilaterally purchased (for $450,000,000) of land in the medical center without approval or any notice, and during a time when the legislature wasn't in session. The valuation of the land was in the $35,000,000 to $65,000,000 range; good luck selling the land back without a loss.

    There is a reason that the legislature created the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board. It will probably all get worked out, but UH has a legitimate claim to be upset.
     
  15. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,390
    Likes Received:
    3,734
    My outrage is a state institution deciding to make large purchases with state funds without state approval. UT wanting to get a better deal doesn't trump state protocol.
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,172
    Likes Received:
    112,815
    It doesn't appear that they got a better deal anyway.
     
  17. Newlin

    Newlin Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    8,081
    Likes Received:
    9,821
    Wait, what am I reading here. The land was valued at $35-65 million, but they paid $450 million? Can someone explain to me why they paid so much?
     
  18. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,925
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Government efficiency, baby!
     
  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    63,440
    Likes Received:
    26,036
    Sounds like they need an investigation into who profited off of that deal. I've heard of a lot of "good ole boy" deals before, but that's kind of ridiculous.
     
  20. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,726
    Likes Received:
    84,065
    Tax valuation or market valuation?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now