Will Harden break the record for turnovers?

2 turnovers per game isn't realistic. No player in history has ever averaged 2 or less turnovers while scoring more than 20 pts/game with 6 or more assists/game.

For players that average 20+ points and 6+ assists, their TO's range from 3.2 to 4.5.

This year when Harden average 3 or less turnovers per game we are 12-10. That's pretty much in line with our season average.

This year when Harden has 6 or more turnovers we are 9-10. Again that's right in line with our season average.

We've been a near .500 team this year and when Harden has low turnover games we are still near .500 and when he has high turnover games we are still near .500. There's no huge deviation.

Last season we were a good team that won at a clip of .683. In that season, our winning percentage was .714 when Harden had 6+ turnovers and our winning percentage was .694 when Harden had 3 or less turnovers. Again, our record was right in line with our season record regardless if Harden had low turnovers or high turnovers.

What are you calling "high turnovers"?

We were 10-4 last season when Harden had 6 or more turnovers, so we weren't at best a .500 team.

Harden averages at most +1.5 turnovers per game more than any of his peers. So you're telling me that we have schemed our defense to play for steals in order to compensate for those extra 1.5 turnovers? That's ridiculous.

Our defense sucks because overall we have poor defensive players. Dwight is no longer elite defensively and his opponents fg% on shots that he's directly contesting is one of the worst of any center in the league. And to preemptively answer the question, no those numbers don't include him picking up someone else's man.

Ariza and Beverley can't stay in front of anyone this year. Smith has been horrible defensively since his return.

The reason that we are .500 is that our rotation features way too many players that are average to below average on both sides of the ball. That's a recipe for disaster. Last year Dwight and Ariza were much better defensively and that made a huge difference.

Do you think that we have anyone that is elite defensively? How about above average? That's why our defense is bad.

You're overexagerating.

First of all teams don't score off of every one of Harden's turnovers. You have no idea how many points opponents directly score off of Harden's turnovers do you?

Yes, you kill a possesion when you make a turnover just as you do when you miss a shot. Missed shots end possessions too and give the ball back to the opponent and we have a heck of a lot more of those than we do Harden turnovers.

Teams don't get extra possessions due to turnovers. They are still going to get the next possession regardless of if we score, miss a shot or turn the ball over. If instead of turning the ball over, we take a shot, is the other team going to get a possession next? Of course they will.

If you really believe that each turnover is basically 2 points then are you under the assumption that we are giving up 30+ points per game off of turnovers? If so, you need to look at actual numbers.

BTW I'm not arguing that our defense isn't bad. It's just not for the reasons that you are suggesting.

Would it be better if Harden had less turnovers? Sure. Is it costing us games? No. It's just like Dwights FT shooting, we'd prefer that he shoot better but that's not the reason for our problems this season.

 

LOL

aelliot obliterating

 

He would have even more if they would give him all the turnovers caused by crappy bounce passes to Howards shins.

 

Look how hard it is to kill a narrative.

 

uh, they do give him those turnovers since Howard doesn't establish possession.

Good job, good effort.

 

Damn shame no one else on the roster can dribble more than twice without getting the ball taken from them or fumbling it away.

 

A lot of it is just lazy, like dumb behind the back passes

 

We have to appreciate his effort, he really wants to secure this record for the fans, the franchise and himself.

 

These are the frustrating ones. I can deal with the turnovers attacking the basket and such, but the weak and lazy passes are tiresome to watch.

 

Yeah, i never complained about his turnovers last year because they were the aggressive ones you can live with.

Too many now are in the backcourt which lead to fast breaks.

 

Most of his turnovers lead to fast break points. Anyone can prove this eye test info?

 

I thought he already did.

 

Why doesn't the GM get a point guard who can actually run an offense?

Or

Get a head coach who actually has offensive sets and holds players accountable defensively?

 

Westbrook would have smashed that record last year if he had of played 82 games

 

Because such coach would not be Morey's puppet and he can not allow it.

Hey, I get it, Harden leads the league in minutes, being fat one myself, I know it's impossible to give 100% on the court at all times. But losing focus, losing his man all the time, I do not understand it. It doesn't waste any energy to have your man in sight. It goes back to fundamentals with him. He has non on defense. His knees aren't bend for defensive stance, that's why people blow by him; his sight is not in between the ball and his man, it's usually on the ball, that's why he loses his man; he just keeps waiting to see where the ball will go to intercept it and get the steal on paper. If his man scores then oh well, not like he gets deducted points from stat sheet.

I'm making great points today, feel like if I'll repeat this for the next couple months, 5 to 10 times a day, people will realize it.

 

To clarify about harden and myself being fat: you CAN give 100% on both ends at all times, but that exhausts you to a point where you can't stay on the court for more than half a quarter per quarter. Harden could be amazing, but at price of averaging 20 minutes a game.

Also, wasn't one of the reasons Harden's minutes why McHale was fired? Because Harden seems to play even more minutes since then. Or was it Blatt/LeBron? Because that seems not to have changed either.

#WhenYouNeedReasonToFireCoach

 

People that don't think Hardens turnovers are a big deal are sadly mistaken. Hardens excessive turnovers hurt us badly. He isn't a point guard. He is not an efficient enough distributor to remain the primary distributor for us and win us a championship. He may be a willing passer. He may make some spectacular passes. But he simply is not efficient enough as the lead distributor to continue in that role and lead us to a championship.

We have to acquire a primary distributor. Not a secondary distributor. But a primary distributor if we expect to win any championships in the Harden era.

 

Well, as of today he's got 310 turnovers in 68 games for an average of 4.6 per game. 14 games left * 4.6 TOs/game + 310 = 374.4

So, yeah, he's definitely keeping the pace up to do it. It won't be a blowout, though.