Gasol is not an alpha dog. He never won a playoff game by himself. And he's better at feeding off teammates than making plays himself. You are making yourself ridiculous comparing him to Shaq and Jabbar. Gasol will not be in top 50 of all time if elect them today, Shaq and Jabbar? No question about it.
That is very arguable. But know that Tmac's "Prime" lasted no more than 4 years...and consisted of him only scoring alot (though never close to 81 point proportions). Aside from the 13-in-35 outburst, there aren't alot of terribly memorable moments..compare that with Kobe's accomplishments...multiple MVP worthy (in fact deserving) seasons, memorable playoff performances (esp during the Shaq era), an underrated complete beasting of the 2009 Finals, countless clutch buckets including numberous buzzer beaters, once-a-generation scoring streaks like 9-over-40pts and 4-over-50pts, and ya, the guy only scored 81 points in one game and 62 in three quarters. That speaks of relentless effort, which I still maintain is the difference between the two players. Tmac never had the heart Kobe had....You think Kobe has ever had any DNP-sore knees? You think Kobe ever stood around on O at half-court, watching his teammates play 4-on-5? Sure Kobe never had a sever leg injury, but do know that he's playing with multiple hand injuries and a knee that is all but wore out, and still is one of the top players in the league...while Mac's sitting on his ass laughing at his own coach. No disrespect to Tmac, but there's a reason most analysts chuckle at the fact that Tmac was once compared with Kobe.
BTW, Draft took place before FA trade. Kobe was drafted and traded to Lakers before O'neal signed. The alpha dog on that Lakers was Divac.
Kobe would have won with Yao Ming when Yao was obviously a better player than Gasol in 2005-2007. No way they lost to Utah at home floor when they're up 5 with 5 minutes left in game 7. And no way they only got as good as No.4 seed in consecutive seasons.
When he won it all in 2009, there's no Artest. Bynum averaged 6.3 pts and 3.7 rbs in playoff. Odom was good, but nowhere near an all star or as consistent as Fisher of 00-02. So yes, Kobe did win it all with less.
This is a very strong and valid point. I never thought about this. Shaq always needed a top caliber swingman to win a championship. But Kobe just needs a good center.
Man, I swear We've had this stupid argument before. Youre making it seem like Shaq went to LA because of Kobe Kobe was a scrub rookie who hadn't logged a nonosecond in an NBA game. Shaq was the most dominant center in the league at the time Shaq went to LA to be in Hollywood and play for a historic franchise. The Lakers were already a playoff team. West felt that adding Shaq would put them over the top. Kobe was an unknown scrub rookie whose game eventually was helped by starting his career with the most dominant center of the time. I know you either wern't born or too young to remember, but most experts had LA winning the season after that and it had nothing to do with Kobe because he was still a scrub coming off the bench getting little minutes.
this is where people dont understand the arugment. People compare Kobe and Lebron, b/c they are similar in talent. Robert Horry was never the best player on his team. FIGURE IT OUT, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok, but when Kobe didnt have Gasol, did Kobe win it all? Nope. Kobe needs a big man to win titles. First Shaq then Gasol. Or you can tell me that without Gasol, Kobe could win the last two titles? Without Gasol or Shaq, Kobe didnt pass from first round. Kobe whined about getting more players on the lakers, since he couldnt leave, because he still was on contract.
No one has ever won a playoff game by themselves. This is something that Kobe nutriders don't seem to understand.
Am I in the wrong thread? I think when clutch re-did the forums something happened, because somehow LeQuit choked and its Kobe's fault? I mean why is there all this talk about KB24? He didn't miss a good look against the Knicks last night?...
Then the "argument" has no legs if it only applies to certain people. You simply can't conclude a single player is better than another with this argument since rings aren't based on one single person.
If kobe is such a great player and leader then why does he have 5 rings and only 2 finals MVPs? This still makes his body of work better than Lebron and thus he is more successful than Lebron at this point also. But comparing him to MJ is a joke. 6 finals, 6 rings, 6 finals mvps. GOAT. back to kobe v lebron we can argue that lebron is playing at a higher level than kobe right now and he probably is but im sure tmac had once played at a higher level than kobe too but that is not enough to define greatness, you need to win and lebron has not done that yet
lebron has played at a higher level than kobe for 3 straight years. this isn't tmac where he played at a higher level than kobe for "short stretches." any player can be great for short stretches, but the greatest of players have that consistency. that's why kobe is so respected. he went through tmac, vince, grant hill.. and all of the guys gunning for him. he stayed consistently great. lebron is the only one who has challenged him, and played better than him (and played at a historical level i might add) it's funny how lebron has a bad stretch in the 4th and now he is a choker. did people forget the portland game earlier this year? or the orlando game? NO SINGLE DAMN player (except for maybe michael jordan) can be clutch every damn single game. it's an unrealistic expectation. there's a reason kobe shoots sub 40% in clutch situations. and he's considered the best clutch player in the game. back to the heat situation. their point differential in these losses to great teams are a measley 2.5 points. what it tells me is that they are BARELY losing these games and if they can just get 1-2 more plays. they really have to fix this before the playoffs. games will be close.
What are we even arguing now. Anyone that think Kobe as of right now is better than Lebron is a delusional nuthugger that shouldn't call themselves an NBA fan. Prime Kobe vs Lebron on the other hand is comparable, i would argue prime Kobe was more skilled than Lebron, because much of Lebron's ability to create is dependent on his freakish athleticism. As far as the Tmac discussion go, I would say in that 02-04 period Kobe and Tmac are pretty much evenly matched, but Tmac fell off due to injuries and Kobe didn't. And no Lebron is okay in clutch time, if he decides to drive he either gets a bucket or get a whistle, but I don't remember him much in those 5 seconds left situations. And Kobe isn't the most clutch, Brandon Roy(pre-knee fck up) is.
I dont know if Lebron is a choker .... dont really care. I do know that he is a quitter .... he quit on his team in the playoffs last season and quit on them in quite a few games in the regular season. He let his frustration with his teammates get the better of him rather than pushing them to be better. Those frustrations with his teammates is what I really believe drove him to sign with D-Wade in Miami. He took the easy way out. Winners dont quit.
