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PJ Tucker - no stats all-star?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by AroundTheWorld, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    [​IMG]

    Just looking at the boxscore, it looks like he had almost no impact on the game. 1 shot in 37 minutes, 0 points. He's our best defender. We won, against a good team. But just wondering, if you were able to put someone like (a healthy) Jonathan Isaac in there instead of him, would we be a better team?
     
  2. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Jonathan Isaac is a DPOY candidate and likely a future all star IMO. Not sure if he’s a great example for your point, but yes Isaac would be an upgrade.

    Which is not a dig at Tucker, despite Tucker not putting up big numbers, he’s immensely valuable to our team. Similar to Shane Battier. Isaac is just a special player, perhaps you could throw out another example.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

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    I guess my question is more...how much does a boxscore really capture the contribution of a player like Tucker? Let's say Hartenstein had played the 37 minutes - I bet he would have gotten more than 0 points, 5 rebounds and 1 block? But would we have beaten Philly? What are the stats Daryl Morey and his team might be seeing that we don't see in the boxscore?
     
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  4. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    He ain't Battier smart but his thicc body and positioning instincts are off the charts.

    Dang, he is durable.
     
  5. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    PJ is the anchor of the defense...he’s the heart and soul of the team...he’s the main one out there talking and communicating on defense...he rarely makes mistakes

    his box score stats will always be pedestrian, but that’s not what he’s out there for

    he’s a Shane Battier...minimal impact in the box score, but coaches recognize his value and will play him heavy minutes because of it

    we will never get someone like a healthy Jonathan Isaac
     
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  6. dc rock

    dc rock Contributing Member

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    PJ Tucker is what happened when Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes went after the same rebound, collided, and melded together.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Harty would have left the game cause he fouled out
    and that meant he would have played soft with 4 or 5 fouls for minutes at a time
    so . .. it would have been harder to win

    Rocket River
     
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  8. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    I'm guessing opponent field goal percentage with Tucker on them. The number of pass offs forced by Tucker. The opposing teams shot volume from certain parts of the floor versus their preferred shots. Basically any proxy way to estimate disrupting what the opponent wants to do.
     
  9. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    After he clanked that first 3-pt attempt off the side of the backboard, I guess he figured that it would be best not to shoot again.
     
  10. Russjr2

    Russjr2 Contributing Member

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    I was looking at PJs and House’s stats last night and they were 1-4. If we had a backup PF/SF that could come off the bench and help Westbrook and Gordon that would be awesome and offset these games from our starters. If we could get a consistent 10-15 ppg from that spot we would be much better.
     
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  11. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    10ppg was supposed to be House's role to fill. A large contingent of Clutchfans was convinced that he would be our lord and savior.
     
  12. SemisolidSnake

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    Exactly. Defense can't be described as well in stats as offense. In fact, unless you watch a game and focus on that exact player exclusively, it's hard to notice subtle impacts from the PJs of the game just because they often happen off the ball. This is why the people that vote on the All-NBA Defense teams and DPOY really ought not to be the ones voting on it, because even the most well-intentioned of them can really only look at statlines to assess players, given the number of players they have to look at. This is why Chris Paul was lobbying for PJ to make one of those teams last year. That's the only way to draw attention away from the typical candidates.

    See also: James Harden's best-in-league post defense.
     
  13. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Contributing Member

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    This is the best thing I’ve read in years!! Sig worthy!
     
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  14. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    Right definitely agree, this would probably be the best way to approach this. Box scores are really great at quickly showing stats but never tell the whole story. Especially if a player is causing a team to alter their shots or miss rebounds (that then got grabbed by that player's team but not by him), set up other players with screens etc etc.. I normally only look at the box out of interest of pure stats but they definitely miss a lot, and don't tell the whole story unless it's super obvious like Harden's stats, but even then though, you're missing all the times he made it very easy for his teammates to score since he almost always pulls 2 defenders.

    Unfortunately this is also a perfect example of the media seeming to only focus on the box scores instead of doing their job and watching the game... ie "Harden is only good because of his 20 FTs" nonsense - even though he's currently getting like ~7... So I guess the media can't even read the box score now, haha.
     
  15. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    Yeah DPOY/defense teams are sometimes a joke, these guys making selections only look at the box
     
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  16. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    PJ Tucker is the anti-Westbrook.
     
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  17. BasketMAD

    BasketMAD Member

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    Yeah, House has been really underwhelming for the past month or so.
     
  18. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

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    This is perfect!
     
  19. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    After a win on CF, it's like we suddenly have an all-star starting 5.

    Wow!!! We're the Warriors now!! 71-11 here we come!
     
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  20. TimDuncanDonaut

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    Tuck is a glue guy on the team. Maybe the vanilla box score wont show, but I don't doubt the Rockets org track internal stats like boxing out, deflections, hustle plays, things that we normally don't consider or have readily available.

    Morey was able find guys like Chuck Hayes and Battier with those measurements.

    Maybe a lost cause, I still voted for Tuck for all star West front court. :oops:
     
    #20 TimDuncanDonaut, Jan 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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