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[OFFICIAL] Elizabeth Warren for President thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    How did that work out with ACA?

    And nobody is advocating to drop everything this is not a zero sum game.

    Why is improving on ACA considered bare bones?
     
  2. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    With M4A, people get to choose their own doctors. It is cheaper, gives the government more leverage to negotiate drug prices etc.

    Improving ACA is better than nothing. But if you go in saying that's all you want you will have to compromise on the improvements that you want so the other side can say they didn't let the Dems get x,y, and z. They need to do that in order to pass it and still say they were fighting for what their constituents wanted.
     
  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    She most definitely flubbed it, she could not answer a direct question in the debate and then she had to announce she would address the issue by sharing her plan in several days.

    Why could she not answer the simple question of raising taxes on the middle class.
     
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  4. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Let's just be clear that M4A doesn't necessarily mean you get to choose your own doctors. It really depends on how they implement it. Is it just expanding Original Medicare to everyone and eliminations Medicare Advantage and the third party Medicare contracts?
     
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  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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  6. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    You can improve ACA and do all of the things you mentioned above.

    No republicans ever signed on to anything with ACA, they will not sign on to anything with M4A the people that you will be negotiating with is the democrats the fact that you think this is the battle makes me wonder if you know all of the parameters and what is truly involved.
     
  7. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I'm generally on your side in this debate, but this is the ultimate red herring.

    Obama told the truth on this. The ACA did not get rid of any doctors on any plans. Anybody who had plan prior to the ACA had the option to keep it which would mean they still have the same doctor access.

    People lost their doctors because the initial offerings under ACA were so competitive that most companies VOLUNTARILY chose to jump to ACA plans and most individuals did as well. They gave up their grandfathered plans. If you had kept it you would have grandfathered access to the same networks.
     
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  8. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Because she didn't want to say something that would be contradicted once the plan was finished. If the plan changed or contradicted what is in the plan at that moment, that would be a flub. I think her poll numbers went up after that debate.
     
  9. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Please, come on be real. She didn't want to say it because she doesn't want a soundbite of saying she'll raise taxes.
     
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  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Agreed it will depend on the implementation. But if all of the doctors are under the one plan, then they would all be open to people who wanted to use them.
     
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  11. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    There would almost certainly be doctors/hospitals who would refuse to participate in a single payor system.

    MD Andesron for example refused to participate in most Medicare Advantage programs.

    Part of the expansion of Medicare to all would by necessity require Medicare payout rates to Advantage level stuff.
     
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  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I agree totally it's why I was disappointed that she did not have a better plan to answer that question.

    She should be held to a better standard because her campaign slogan is I have a plan for that, she should never be unable to answer a question that was this basic.

    It was like she was surprised by the questions.
     
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  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Dude

    Why must everything be a conspiracy with you?

    You have good info but everything is has to presented with a veneer of conspiracy it makes it hard to take you seriously.

    So now Warren is a corporate shill.

    So Bernie is the only pure one?
     
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  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Random is random.

    What the hell does a rule from the 1940's have to do with with today and this topic.

    None of those things are atrocities.
     
  15. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Cash them checks Brinkley.:D
     
  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    So I guess she didn't have a plan for this?

    Which is it?
     
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  17. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

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    As a supporter of M4All and someone who would have previously been happy either Warren or Bernie as the nominee, her Medicare for All plan is an unmitigated disaster. It is the most convoluted piece of crap I have seen, all just to avoid having to say that middle class taxes will go up.

    Warren bent over backwards to avoid raising taxes on the middle class, and as a result created a regressive and fantastical finance plan. I mean, there is no way that a bill that puts a hard tax on small businesses, diverts military spending, and dips its toes in immigration reform all at once would ever be passed even a democratic majority legislature, and I find it hard to believe that she didn't know that.

    I have always had my suspicions about her commitment to M4All, and this plan only deepens those concerns. Furthermore, it adds nothing useful to the debate for M4All and jiust makes future, more legitimate proposals, easier targets for ridicule.
     
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  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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    This.

    There is no advantage going into the small details of the plan because everyone is going to sacrifice and everyone is going to be pissed to some extent. It is like making sausage. Taxes ARE going to be raised. The quality of care for those with really good insurance IS going to go down. Businesses ARE going to see their taxes raised and there WILL be consequences on the economy by raising tax rates on the super rich and investments.......

    The argument is that even with all these adjustments and costs, it will (if you believe in the theory) be overall less expensive and more efficient than what we currently have, and will reduce costs associated with the poor having limited access prior to single payer.

    This idea that the quality of care for those with good insurance will not go down is foolishness. I have been and used socialized medicine in Europe and the quality of care given is FAR better than those that have no insurance or crappy coverage, but not nearly as good as what is in the USA if you have a good policy.
     
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  19. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I think she is committed to M4A but is more realistic about what it takes to win a national election than Bernie is. She's trying to find the median and there isn't one really.

    I was happy to see someone finally ask the question about what happens to the THOUSANDS of people who work in the insurance industry who would be kicked to the curb. Her "they can all go sell auto and life insurance" answer was hilarious.

    Typical liberal answer. Doesn't value those jobs at all so doesn't really care what happens to them and thinks they aren't worth of her concern.
     
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  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    She has a plan.......... but she also wants to win the nomination and election......... and saying she is going to increase middle class taxes isn't going to get her elected.
     
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