Right, leaving work-ethic moralities out of my use of the word "lazy," what I'm mainly saying is the hard-workers will pass you by when you get to the pros, and for bigs, this is even more true because coaches are allowing the tweeners to compete for play time more than ever before, in today's NBA. imso, the NBA switch to featuring small ball more is partly from the league realizing playing the high-motor, hard workers like PJ Tucker is the way to go, rather than sticking to standard ideas of prototypical size requirements for bigs...plus giving well-conditioned, defensive small forwards more roles at the 4 spot, if they practice, practice, practice their corner threes.
Not that it matters at all... but I wonder if there's data on this. Cause it also seems likely that there's lots of hard workers out there that just never made it because ultimately you have a ceiling. maybe? seems almost 100% related to the value of the 3 pointer to me.
keep in mind, I'm talking strictly about bigs...who, traditionally, don't have the same skill requirements of guards...because they have a much bigger defense and rebounding impact. All the "you can't teach height" things still exist. I'm feeling another JayZ750 discussion devolving into semantics coming. Only you could turn a 100% agree response into a debate. Really, "100% related to the value of the 3 ptr." It has nothing to do with improving defense to guard everything? specifically the superstars...not to mention rule changes over last 20 years to help those stars, and give freedom to zone defenses/zone principles? You caught me in my "wheelhouse" of NBA interest and knowledge here. We really should move this to another thread though. This is a trade thread. Spoiler: Here's my last points for added clarity Tracking NBA defenses and scheme changes is probably my most favorite thing of all sports hobbies. From that, I strongly believe drafting started changing, as well as player evaluation, towards better defenders...hence my interest in your Chriss comments. I didn't exactly call positionless basketball, but as early as 2004 (as illegal defense rules were eradicated) I was pointing out signs of drafting for defense and positionless defenders to allow more 3s and 4s to be on the court at once...and overall minutes-wise. Keep in mind that the D part of 3 and D is the main difference here (vs previous eras). There have always been three point shooters galore. If defense wasn't such a big factor in the change towards different role-player types, then we'd actually have better 3-pt shooting in the NBA. We must consider the defensive side of the ball when factoring in the overall impact of a league shooting more threes. Obviously, the league is going to figure out that it needs to guard that line a LOT better....hence, a move to positionless players and switching defenses, and more emphasis on Bigs who can guard the perimeter....because they get stuck out there. Here's were you can interject your Semantic re-calibration of your "100% related" point. Now is where you say, "OK, so the best shooters in college aren't drafted as high as before, but the league did start drafting defenders who shot the best among that pool of defenders." That is, the league didn't turn the pure shooters into defenders, we nurtured crops of 6'7 - 6'9 defenders into 35% shooters (higher in the corners)...and have them competing for the 144 minutes across 3 positions now. All I'm saying is (with regard to bigs) we have widened the talent pool to provide coaches with by relaxing our Center and PF height requirements based on old-standard position basketball. Positionless basketball is taking over due to defensive skills, motor and ability/willingness to learn defense schemes. The Chriss skills are still very meaningful to the game (see Capela), but there is more players from traditionally other positions competing for their minutes, now.
I feel Capela is replaceable. My guess was more so Chandler with Ariza/Knight. Some combination with Chandler as the "centerpiece" for Houston. TJ Warren was another potential trade asset, who would more than likely would have been more valuable than Chriss, but there's more to it I can't explain or understand.
They actually get them through some medical machineries for the physical. I wonder what they did on DMo for his physical.
Chandler is not a fit on switch everything D. This is a point so many fail to grasp when dismissing Capela.
haha... I'll keep it relatively short then. On the whole, I agree with your assessment completely. When I said it was all about the 3 point line, I was inferring both offensively AND defensively. The relative value of the 3 works both ways. Super valuable to your offense, super devastating to your defense. Longer reply Spoiler Even then it was a slow burn of a transition really until the last 5 years. And EVEN then, we still have a draft like this one where Ayton goes first. And maybe Ayton learns how to play defense all of a sudden, or maybe traditional bigs somehow become more valuable in the end... but its just curious to me. It's why the Jaren Jackson Jr to the Grizzlies move pisses me off... who are you and most smart GMs choosing between Al Horford (JJJr) or KAT (Ayton)?? Or even Doncic... kid will be bale to play 4 positions. I'm sure I'll be proven wrong and Ayton will dominate, lol... Just relative to your points about Tucker vs. a Chriss and work ethic... I think this is more about Chriss sucking, then Tucker being a hard working, position-less, great defensively small ball big. On your point about the defensive part being more important, yep, agree. Because even with bigs that can shoot the three, and spacing offensively, the bigger boon to the offense seems to be guards that are now consistently in the high 30s percentage wise, and guards that can gets big to switch on them and basically get any shot or offensively play (drive and kick they want). And since the value of the 3 is more important, the defense is better off adjusting with that tall wing player than keeping in the big who can't switch and defend. Now the harder thing to figure relative to bigs, and bigs of past era eras, is how they would defend in this era. I'm probably romanticizing, but personally I think the great bigs of the 80s and 90s would on the whole be fairly effective today. Nobody can guard Steph or KD great, just like you wouldn't want even Hakeem switch onto MJ on the perimeter many times. But if I think about Hakeem, Mourning, Ewing, Rodman, Mahorn, Nance, Horace Grant, Robinson, Deke, etc. I'm thinking about guys who were EXTREMELY fundamentally sound defensively, had great defensive instincts, great physical attributes AND put in the effort. I mean, is there any evidence to show they'd be better against the Warriors than say Rudy Gobert? I guess not... but Gobert is a dominant defensive force that works against 95% of the league. That he isn't great against the Warriors... I mean the Warriors are unicorn of 3 point shooting efficiency and offensive efficiency and overall talent that is perhaps unmatched in modern basketball. And even then, yeah, I think Hakeem would be better.
Excellent points HP. No question "motor" is a huge skill that has to be there. The older I get in watching these players the more apparent that the skills of 1) Motor, 2) BB IQ, 3) Durability....are soooo important. For a player to have long term success they need those traits. And Harden has those in spades!
[King] 4 NBA players have amassed 100 blocks, 100 steals, and 100 3s before turning 21: LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, Marquese Chriss. The player who had the most blocks and eFG% our of those 4? Chriss.
I think this trade was a mistake and will be regretted. From what I saw of Melton - and granted it's summer league stuff - the guy played like a star - not in his shooting or what not - just the way he PLAYED. The way he moved and his decision making. The guy would have contributed and been in the rotation this year - much more likely than either the two players we acquired. I get the rationale, but man, I think they should have given-up a first round pick instead. Melton is worth more than that.
The ideal center is already on the team, name is Clint Capela. Willie Cauley-stein could also be a good fit and is on a cheap contract. But the Rockets really need a small ball 5 with more length than Tucker and better switchability than Ryno. A 5 that Draymond Green can't afford to cheat/sag toward rim. Chriss could be that guy. Or Bruno.
Still！I just couldn't believe that we didn't have to give out any 1st round pick in that trade.....That's a miracle...
I’d take Melton over Knight all day, everyday. I think Melton as the 4th guard would have been sick. I understand the Morey math, and that second round picks are long shots, but gawdamn, second round picks don’t look like this guy. The bust potential of Knight and Chriss worries me, because they both have played like losers their entire careers. DeAnthony Melton had the look and skills of a winner. Reminding me of rookie Sam Cassell with his composure, and Pat Bev with his defense. We’ll see.
If that's the case, why did he slip all the way to the middle of the 2nd round? All those teams thought he was NOT worth a first-round pick, and more than a dozen thought he wasn't even worth their second-round pick. I wouldn't be shocked if he became a solid NBA player at some point, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see him struggle just to become a rotation guy. There have been many defense-minded guards who couldn't latch on at this level, including some drafted much higher. I'm just not convinced it was a bad move to dump him and keep the pick. Part of me even wonders how much Morey had to do with the sudden plethora of "this guy's going to be a star!" media articles after summer league. Strange that we didn't sign him, keeping him tradeable, despite all those "can't-miss" proclamations.
If Morey is indeed not done then there is zero argument to keeping Melton over a 1st rounder. Melton wasn’t going to get big minutes to start the season, so his trade value isn’t going to increase much by the trade deadline but there is a chance it could decrease if he shows nothing from garbage minutes he may receive. First round pick the team knows what it is. It got us Lou couple years ago.
