1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Best Rotation Ever?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by lnchan, May 7, 2018.

  1. The Hunted

    The Hunted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,582
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    He was joking.
     
    lnchan likes this.
  2. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Messages:
    6,476
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    EDIT: someone already pointed out it was a joke.
     
  3. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,438
    Likes Received:
    11,224
    Yeah... We need to trade Tony Kemp for Mike Trout and prospects. Not Kershaw.
     
  4. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,438
    Likes Received:
    11,224
    Astros starters with 35 quality starts with a ~2.30 ERA through 47 games...
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    30,984
    Likes Received:
    14,511
  6. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,370
    Likes Received:
    13,250
    For me, the biggest transition from last year is how we are winning.

    Last year, it was the potent offense that made it seem we were never out of a game because we were so fluent in scoring.

    This year, we win by preventing runs.

    Maybe I am just biased towards slug fests over pitching duels, but now I dont have confidence in winning unless we have a big lead late. This is not so much about our pen holding the lead, but rather the ability (inability) to score when needed.
     
  7. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    48,095
    Likes Received:
    14,321
    Over the vast history of this game, very rarely has an elite pitching team failed to win a ton of games and not be in the post-season.

    On the contrary, very rarely has an elite hitting team (with subpar pitching) succeeded and been a playoff team.

    If you have to choose one (of course all teams would prefer to have both)... you choose the pitching.

    And as it is... there's a ton of regression to the mean expected for this lineup. The biggest question mark remains Marwin... if he's closer to last year, this is going to be a for-sure elite offense again. If he's closer to his career numbers before last year, they're going to need at least one more piece. He's showing some progress as of late... and the Astros are winning more and more games.
     
    arkoe and raining threes like this.
  8. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,930
    Likes Received:
    14,001
    There is a slant towards pitching, but pitching has one problem. It is fickle, and is easier to judge in retrospect. It is much harder to predict pitching as starters get hurt, and most relief pitchers have hot and cold streaks almost randomly. Just last season, the quite possibly the greatest pitching staff in the history of the regular season until 2018 lost in the ALDS as their best ace didn't look good.
     
  9. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,438
    Likes Received:
    11,224
  10. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    48,095
    Likes Received:
    14,321
    Hitting is definitely fickle from game to game as well. Yes, pitchers can get injured.

    I also subscribe to "the playoffs are a crapshoot" mindset... but if you want to stack the deck for success, I'd bet on teams pitching their way through the crapshoot, vs hitting through it.
     
  11. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,930
    Likes Received:
    14,001
    I'd bet on the team that has best combination of both.
     
  12. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,370
    Likes Received:
    13,250
    Goes back to "Great Pitching beats great hitting".

    While I subscribe to it, it certainly can go the other way at times.

    Often times, what describes "Great Pitching" is more about avoiding bad pitches than throwing light out ones.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    48,095
    Likes Received:
    14,321
    Of course.

    The discussion pertains to how far a great pitching staff alone can get a team.

    History suggests pretty damn far, regardless of the hitting.

    Also, still think it’s a major overreaction to the offense. They’re going to hit.
     
  14. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2013
    Messages:
    33,206
    Likes Received:
    24,163
    Why does the "cut-off" seem to be 1968 ??..... Lowering of the mound in '69.

    Interesting that 3 of the 4 previous teams occurred within 2 seasons of each other. Baseball was fed up, then outlawed hand-checking.

    Astros numbers are extra incredible. We'll see if JV makes a run at Gibson's all-time ERA record (set in '68).
     
  15. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    19,143
    Likes Received:
    27,916
    The year of the pitcher in 68 was a joke, it was impossible to hit with an extra high strike zone and higher mound. That season also featured an AL batting champ that only hit .301 and a 30 game winner.

    The 2018 AL OPS is almost 100 points higher, and teams are averaging a whole extra run compared to then. So yeah, if this rotation end up anywhere close to what they did in 67/68 it will almost certainly be the greatest pitching staff since the dead ball era.
     
  16. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,410
    Likes Received:
    15,843
    Also interesting is that the much-maligned bullpen has the best ERA in the league too.
     
  17. Marteen

    Marteen Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,828
    Likes Received:
    1,276
    Kinda crazy or scary that those pitching staffs being compared to the current Astros rotation didn't win it all, and the Braves could only win 1 World Series with Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux.

    Starting pitching being healthy and pitching longer into games has really worked wonders for them. Something they didn’t have as much last year.
     
    Houstunna and msn like this.
  18. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    21,642
    Likes Received:
    10,550
    Your're doing well when your former Cy Young winner is the worst pitcher in the rotation.
     
  19. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,639
    And yet he is still 20th in ERA and 21st in WHIP. Essentially a #2 or #3 on every other team in the AL.
     
    texans1095 likes this.
  20. torque

    torque Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    925
    Astros bullpen numbers:

    McHugh: 17.2 IP .91 WHIP .51 ERA
    Devenski 17.2 IP .96 WHP 1.53 ERA
    Peacock 17.2 IP .79 WHIP 2.04 ERA
    Rondon 15.2 IP 1.15 WHIP 2.30 ERA
    Harris 15.2 IP 1.21 WHIP 3.45 ERA
    Giles 15 IP .93 WHIP 3.60 ERA

    Then Sipp and Smith. It's frankly a pretty dominant bullpen so far. I think Rondon deserves more high leverage opportunities.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now