Yup. GOATs make sure they lose before the Finals. Losing to the Pistons before the finals is somehow more impressive than making the finals. I really don't get this logic. Like people who knock Brady for losing the Superbowl. Doesn't make sense to me. The fact that you're getting there every single year means more
"The fact that he's getting there every year" does it ever cross your mind that he's getting to the finals every year due to the lack of competition? Like who can challenge lebron raptors? Celts? Knicks? Lol
not disagreeing that since re-joining the cavs, the east has been pretty much a cakewalk, but... IMO if you use that logic then his losses in the finals shouldn't be held against him, especially when his team has been the underdog in 6 of the 8 finals.
You mean KD's overall play when he plays with Curry, Thompson, Green and Iguadala? It's pretty easy to dominate when your team has an overwhelming talent advantage every match, ask Jordan how it feels to beat up on Ewing, D Admiral, Hakeem, Stockton nd Malone and all the rest of his contemporaries making do with weak ass teams as he rolls around with the Bulls including Pippen who was the 2nd best wing player of his era.
What about when Jordan won a ring 6 times what kind of competition did he face then? When Kobe was winning 3 rings as a rookie how come that isn't held against him when any other great player like Pierce or KG or Ray Allen would've also gotten 3 rings riding Shaq's coattails? It still doesn't make your logic any better its dumb AF to argue that Lebron getting to the finals is WORSE than other goats losing before the finals. MJ could've had 7 rings, he was already back during Hakeem's 2 peat. But he got eliminated in the ECF, guess that's better than getting to the finals and getting destroyed by hakeem? I'm really gonna be happy 10 years from now when the people who drank the MJ kool aid subside and MJ gets relegated to ancient history like Russell, Big O and Bird/Magic.
funny thing is brady dominates a weak division (when the last time the bills, jets, or dolphins had a franchise qb?) and an inferior conference but that is never brought up against him in praising his legacy.
Kd actually wants to take the clutch shots on his team. Lebr First off, the Bulls werent a superteam there was no "overwhelming" talent gap. They had the best player ever together w/ Scottie Pippen. Other than that, you cant name anybody you can build a team around. Second, these other teams the Bulls played against were just as talented as they were. Jordan was clearly the best player, but top to bottom these other teams werent bad at all, they were legit teams. Anybody who watched basketball in the 80's/90's knows this. But the casual fan always has his spin on what he thinks old school nba was. Which is usually incorrect
These ignorant mellenials simple as hell. 3-4 in the finals, about to be 3-5. Jordan 6-0, takes all the last shots, closes all the games and not let pipoen be the closer taking the final shot. Jordan never had inexplicable choke jobs on the regular or melt downs. Jordan isn't mentally weak unlike LeBron like when bron inexplicably melted versus the mavericks in 2011. LeBron is great but only an idiot would be so defiantly pro LeBron as goat. I will officially ignore anything you say ever about basketball because you clearly don't know it. Foh.
No. It means you've been to 8 Finals and lost 5 of them thereby exposing the fact that you play in a weak conference and are a shoo-in to reach the Finals every year. Again, losing to Pistons or whoever in the conference is more meaningful so long as you have some competition. When was the last time LeBron played a worthy foe in the East?
Maybe not greatest bball player but hands down greatest pure athlete in my 42 years of time on this planet
is it his fault that there is a lack of competition because others can't get to his level? If he was a worse player that played down to their levels to a point where those teams challenged him, would that strengthen his goat argument in your eyes?
No...something more than lower tier all-star led teams as competition....something like HOF player led teams as competition would strengthen it. THOUGH...at the same time and same argument...if LeBron played in the West....he'd have 2 or 3 rings all the same with zero losses(if the Cavs and Warriors played in the WCF instead of Finals, i doubt they win though). That would give him the same amount of rings with no losses as MJ and same age but i think LeBron is in for a steady decline since his only go to move is to lower shoulder and barrel his way to basket and the Warriors all in their primes ready to dominate the next 4 years minimum which are LeBrons final years of elite production.
So you would think more highly of Lebron if he lost to the pacers in 2014 ecf Instead of the spurs in the finals? Maybe Lebron is just that much better than his competition.
Not against the West. He's 3 out of 8. He's never had to play a tough conference schedule like say the Spurs, Thunder, Grizzlies, Clippers, or Rockets to get to the Finals. The last three Eastern conference playoffs have been horrible. So, yes on a pure accomplishment basis, representing the East in the Finals is not that impressive. I'm not trying to diminish LeBron's greatness, but if the argument for GOAT is all those Finals appearances where he's only 3 of 8, then I must say I cannot consider him on the basis of those accomplishments.
Hey **** sucker, how many finals teams were better against Lebron compared to Jordan, minus Mavericks, every single one of them would have lost to the Lebron's opponents, yah, east might have sucked, but west been tough as hell, nowhere near competition that Jordan faced, get that Jordan dik out of your mouth, for once. I think LeBron is around same as it comes to Jordan in terms of greatness. But tell that to Jordan fans, boi o boi, they just can't have it other way, LeBrons opponents in east sucked, Lebron's finals record sucks, bet if he have swept all of them for 8 years, all finals opponents would be terrible as well and he would still not good enough compared to Jordan. Stop hattin'
I can see the point from the other side. Losing to a team like the Pistons should be counted as much a failure (if not more) as losing to a team like the Warriors. I mean, which loss is more understandable? Anyway, I've always shake my head whenever people look just at how a guy's TEAM did to judge a player's legacy. It's a team sport. You have to look at the player's achievement in the context of the team he played on.
