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Harden fixed his turnovers issue by getting more assists but the TO's are still a problem

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DudeWah, Jan 23, 2017.

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  1. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    This is the simple truth.

    Last year Harden was turning the ball over too much and it was a problem. He was only averaging around 7 assists a game. Thus, the games where he threw the ball away 8-9 times were hard to swallow.

    Now, Harden averages 11+ assists a game so his high turnover games are a lot easier to swallow.

    Let's be realistic. It's still a problem though.

    There are 3 particular turnovers that are just completely unforced and unnecessary:

    1. You saw it in tonight's game. The "drive in the lane expecting a foul and throwing his hands up while not getting a foul call." Yes, these are foul calls that Harden should get. That doesn't matter though, because you can't control what the refs do. Harden needs to just throw a shot up becsuse at least this gives the team a chance to rebound or at the very least prevents a fast break from his turnover
    2. The bounce pass into a big man who is heavily covered. This pass almost never works. It's almost always a turnover or kicked ball call. I don't get it. This isn't to say he should never bounce pass. Harden is really good at it. But for those of you who watch the games you know exactly which ones I'm talking about. They look like they never had a chance.
    3. The full court Hail Mary. This fails more often than not. Even when it works it only results in something good happening a minor percentage of the time.

    I really think if Harden would just cut back on these three specific plays he'd become even more scary. James still has to mature further.

    Harden has been one of the top 3-5 players in the NBA for three straight seasons now. Acknowledging he has a turnover problem is not discrediting him in any way. Everyone knows this team would be nowhere without him.

    Harden himself has enough self awarensss to have admitted multiple times this season that he has to get his turnovers down. This is no small task for a guy that is asked to do everything. But for someone as talented as Harden, I have to believe he will eventually do it.

    This team is not going to be able to win it all until that happens.
     
    #1 DudeWah, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  2. bobloblaw

    bobloblaw Contributing Member

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    How is an issue that has been fixed still a problem?
     
    #2 bobloblaw, Jan 23, 2017
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  3. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    Let me clarify that.

    I should have done so in my OP.

    When Harden turns the ball over at a similar clip to last season, his assists this season offset those turnovers, whereas last season they did not.

    Of course, this isn't so simple as he would have had more assists last season if we actually had shooters.

    The problem is not in the games where Harden gets 5-7 turnovers.

    The problem has to do with the games where Harden gets 8+ turnovers. He's reverted to doing this a lot lately.

    Again, a lot of these are unforced errors. Therein lies the issue.

    He can fix this easily. He has to.
     
    #3 DudeWah, Jan 23, 2017
  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    If Rockets' bigs can finish worth a damn tonight, then the AST:TO margin would be even bigger variance, in Harden's favor. This is still a TEAM game people.
     
    #4 D-rock, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  5. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    I think this is not out #1 issue
    However I think it is predictability that is causing his issues
    Which Means
    1. It falls upon the coach to change it . . . him and harden have to figure this out among them

    How many FUMBLED FRICKING PASSES end up on his stat sheet

    Some Turnovers however at not his fault
    At least onces a game someone fumbles a pass
    Seriously
    Every Pass to NeNe seems like it has to be a bounce pass. . . a perfect bounce pass
    Cause he sure as hell not catching the Alley Oops
    Clint is the opposite. . .
    Harrel fumbles passes on the rolls. . .

    None of those passes count agains them . . but count against Harden

    Lastly. . . the 3/4 quarter pass ahead. . . yEah . . HArden need to stop that isht
    Too high Risk

    Rocket River
     
    #5 Rocket River, Jan 23, 2017
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  6. Rockets4Life13

    Rockets4Life13 Member

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    These full court hail-marys work more often than not and are 2 quick and easy points on the board. U only want to see that they dont work because its another TO on that stat sheet that CF love to talk about so much. U know i rather have harden throwing them because it accelerates the game and this is where we shine because they run better than almost any other team due to their focus on it in practise. U know what team has the exact same amount of TO/game as we do? The golden state warriors. Is it worse to have them on one guy who has the ball in his hands for the majority of the time than splitting it across guys like KD, Draymond nd curry? No it is not. If we were dead last in TOs/game i would accept your concerns but i dont get why TOs are only bad if they are on one guy who has the responsibility for the ball all the time.
     
    #6 Rockets4Life13, Jan 23, 2017
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  7. basketballholic

    basketballholic Member

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    You don't say.........
     
    #7 basketballholic, Jan 23, 2017
  8. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    The Hail Mary at least we are back on defense already .

    The crowded lane pass is the worst .

    The expecting a foul I can live with .. He gets fouled , they should call it . He's been much better at this this year .

    We should sit him for a game or two to let him rest and watch the team play without him , I bet his TO's would go down ... Only problem is that we will prolly lose those games . But hey lose 2 to be better in the playoffs ? Good trade IMO
     
    #8 snowconeman22, Jan 23, 2017
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  9. joomba

    joomba Member

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    There are two components to being a great passer : knowing when to pass, and also knowing when not to pass. Harden is great at former, but sucks at the latter. Want to know who's great at both? CP3. Harden just throws his passes even when its not a good time to do so, thus the turnovers.
     
    #9 joomba, Jan 23, 2017
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  10. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    I definitely agree that he has been much better.

    Seeing it tonight just gave me some ptsd from being reminded of years past.
     
    #10 DudeWah, Jan 23, 2017
  11. Rockets4Life13

    Rockets4Life13 Member

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    Since u allready posted this in the game thread and u didnt answer on my reply, would you trade Harden for CP3+ picks?
     
    #11 Rockets4Life13, Jan 23, 2017
  12. joomba

    joomba Member

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    Bucks had 34 points off of our turnovers tonight. Yeah, our defense was horrible, but if Harden turned it over just 5 times instead of 11, we could've won this game, and 5 turnovers from your point guard is not an unreasonable thing to ask.
     
    #12 joomba, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  13. MorningZippo

    MorningZippo Member

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    Expecting less than 5 TO's from your best passer and your best scorer combined on the other hand, is insane.
     
    #13 MorningZippo, Jan 23, 2017
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  14. joomba

    joomba Member

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    Considering Harden wasn't all that aggressive about scoring in this game, I would say no.
     
    #14 joomba, Jan 23, 2017
  15. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    I agree with this. Harden is going to turn the ball over, but that's okay given that he's asked to do so much.

    Harden's turnovers should never be above the 5-7 range and ideally should be only 5 or 6.

    That's a fair standard.
     
    #15 DudeWah, Jan 23, 2017
  16. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Contributing Member

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    Is @joomba _holic's newest user?
     
    #16 BigMaloe, Jan 23, 2017
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  17. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    The solution is

    A SERIOUS TALK
     
    #17 Carl Herrera, Jan 23, 2017
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  18. Russjr2

    Russjr2 Contributing Member

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    11 TOs just tells me we need another guy on the floor that can also make plays. Another guy that can handle the ball and get to any place on the floor he wants to. Currently, Hareen is putting up pretty numbers but that won't get us far later in the season. Gotta have another guy that can be a threat off the dribble to relieve him of some of the burden.
     
    #18 Russjr2, Jan 23, 2017
  19. Tha_Dude

    Tha_Dude Contributing Member

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    He's holics new padawan.
     
    #19 Tha_Dude, Jan 23, 2017
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  20. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    He can't and Morey would be brain dead to do that trade if it was even possible. CP3 would not have this team at #3. Paul has much better starting 5 and deeper bench in every season he's been a Clipper and/or Harden has been a Rocket. Harden has taken his team farther, and not just this season either.

    When was the last time CP3 was even in the MVP conversation. Stupidity raises its ugly head yet again.
     
    #20 D-rock, Jan 23, 2017
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