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New trial opens the spotlight on the darkest parts of America's experiments with torture

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Apr 24, 2016.

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  1. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-victims-program-judge-considers-claims-live

    "Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants."

    Utterly chilling.

    The President must "take care that the laws be faithfully executed."

    The specific victims and crimes that justice cannot pursue.

    Ultimately, the question must be asked: how can somebody held to account for these clear violations of the law? And how much do the American people and the world at large understand about how deep the rot has set in?

    Even a partial glimpse through this tangle of classified documents sets quite a different narrative on ALL of the contributing factors to warfare in the Middle East.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/06/el-salvador-iraq-police-squads-washington

    From El Salvador to Iraq: Washington's man behind brutal police squads

    In 2004, with the war in Iraq going from bad to worse, the US drafted in a veteran of Central America's dirty wars to help set up a new force to fight the insurgency. The result: secret detention centres, torture and a spiral into sectarian carnage

    Interested to hear some perspective on this issue.
     
    #1 Northside Storm, Apr 24, 2016
  2. Exiled

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    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/how-did-arab-states-involved-cia-torture-330269922


    [​IMG]


    the ultimate hypocrisy, when the US publish its annual human rights report condemning these countries , or label some of those states as hostile governments
     
    #2 Exiled, Apr 27, 2016
  3. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld 98er
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    Why would you want to live in a country like that, a country that you seem to despise so much, based on your posts on this board?

    Also:

    [​IMG]
     
    #3 AroundTheWorld, Apr 27, 2016
  4. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    why would you care about what i may say of the US , when all your concerns are limited to what is good only for ISRAEL !!

    btw, i thought you would stop posting for a while , i mean your butt is't completely healed with all the kicking you got lol !!
     
    #4 Exiled, Apr 27, 2016
  5. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld 98er
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    I was talking to the intern, not to the crazy Islamist.
     
    #5 AroundTheWorld, Apr 27, 2016
  6. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Our Canadian immigrants are fantastic - they lust to move to our country and then once here, immediately start b****ing about it!
     
    #6 bigtexxx, Apr 27, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  7. Exiled

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    I still can answer it lol , i know you would respond by insult then your dogs ( the 2 of them with like 5-6 user names ) will come to rescue .but [no one want the US to gradually dismiss its moral ground and become like Israel. as you may noticed : people want to live in a place so they actually care about it , not like you who take it as a free ride toward the ultimate zionist state journey]

    this is a common practice there

    [​IMG]


    over 400 child detained in the past month alone, this crime against humanity has no place in free world...and if mistakes took place, moral of people would correct it .

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #7 Exiled, Apr 27, 2016
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I'm very concerned about it. This is what I wanted Bush impeached for (not that lying about WMD stuff). I do hope there is a reckoning of some kind in the end because this isn't what our country should be about. Of course, Trump and his Trumpeters probably think it was the good and right thing to do and think that complaints about torture is just a bunch of political correctness.
     
    #8 JuanValdez, Apr 27, 2016
  9. Falcons Talon

    Falcons Talon Contributing Member

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    What would Canada do?
    WWCD
     
    #9 Falcons Talon, Apr 27, 2016
  10. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    they sure do!

    [​IMG]

    as for the thread topic, its obvious after 10 years of this being public knowledge that most people in this country are sadly ok with torture.

    bush, cheney, rumsfeld, alberto gonzales and john yoo are all war criminals and should be treated as such.
     
    #10 jo mama, Apr 27, 2016
  11. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    So much fail. But nice try, eh?
     
    #11 bigtexxx, Apr 27, 2016
  12. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld 98er
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    In all seriousness, I am against torture and I think bad things are bad, even if the good guys do them. It's a slippery slope once you resort to doing bad things because you think it helps a good cause - when you go too far, what is it that still distinguishes you from the bad guys?

    That said - the bad guys the Western world has to deal with are SO bad that desperate measures may sometimes be inevitable.

    If you know that a terrorist may blow up a nuclear reactor tomorrow and you have captured one of his co-conspirators...would it be justified to torture him to find a way to stop the terrorist? Tough question.

    Life is more complicated than sitting on a moral high horse somewhere between McGill and being a hanger-on in Silicon Valley.
     
    #12 AroundTheWorld, Apr 27, 2016
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    There might be tough moral questions one could dream up, but I don't think it's necessary. For all the torture we did, how many nuclear reactors did we save from terror plots? The program's moral defense is premised on what-ifs that never materialized, and that sound a little unlikely even in hypothetical.

    Besides all that, my moral position on this is much like my moral position on civil disobedience -- if you feel so strongly that you must break the law in order to save the country, by all means go ahead and do it but only at the expense of your freedom. We should still prosecute crimes, even if they are committed 'for the right reasons.' Instead they shirk all accountability and we can't even get a trial.
     
    #13 JuanValdez, Apr 27, 2016
  14. Exiled

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    "It's not just ignorant, but it is irresponsible ..."

    this what's Canadian PM thinks , take note of that..

    [youtube]tSQS3BwjqTs[/youtube]
     
    #14 Exiled, Apr 27, 2016
  15. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    When politicians repeatedly say this mantra ..".. We share common value with Israelis ..."... Maybe they meant this..


    [youtube]k-dKeYUPGG0[/youtube]
     
    #15 Exiled, Apr 27, 2016
  16. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Maybe I like American principles so much I actually go and defend them. The above is not representative of American ideals at all, and if you think it is, maybe that's why you'd never live here.

    I'm toughest on the people I love the most. Which is why I treat you like a salty joke that lives in Germania ohohohohoh :p
     
    #16 Northside Storm, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  17. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    America isn't torturing the living bejesus out of the Saudi royal family, Putin, or Assad.

    And what does this have to do with scooping up innocent people without trial and torturing them, or scooping up and lighting the Shia-Sunni civil war in Iraq in flames with mass torture rings--were there any nuclear reactors involved then?

    Can you point to an instance in a trial where somebody brought up this defense? Rather than " ‘we can never let the world know what I have done to you.’"?

    Thanks for having an opinion on this that doesn't involve referencing me.
     
    #17 Northside Storm, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  18. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Send our favored son to help Trump lose heavily to the Rodham :)
     
    #18 Northside Storm, Apr 27, 2016
  19. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    To be fair, I lusted to move to the Valley, not really to America itself. And this slice of California is thankfully much more like Canada than perhaps anywhere else in America.

    But I'm sorry to hear you don't like me exercising my American rights to free discourse, and I'm unsurprised that your only exit for policies you supported is to attack the messenger :cool:

    Terrible, unAmerican mistakes. You're a part of those, not I! :)

    Even as a recent Canadian immigrant, I can call out exactly what doesn't align with American values. Can you do the same?
     
    #19 Northside Storm, Apr 27, 2016
  20. Falcons Talon

    Falcons Talon Contributing Member

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    He has every right to voice his views like you do. He doesn't have to like it.

    Which part of Kalifornia do you speak?
     
    #20 Falcons Talon, Apr 27, 2016
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