Man, I should ask for a royalty - that guy's ripping me off! That makes no sense - if they were such great friends, why would Caminiti out him? And for the record, Biggio/ Caminiti were close; Bags wasn't terribly close to either (at least not as it's always been portrayed.)
Anyone who wants to judge the past, oh, 70 years of sports (post-WWII): Olympics, MLB, NFL, World Cup, NBA, NCAAs, any sort of international competition, should realize that they were all dirty and dispense your ire accordingly.
I think we are almost all on the same page. He deserves to be in on his stats, glove, base running, and overall dominance of the era. We all think it's plausible he did steroids on the basis that he got huge, swung the bat like a toothpick, played in the era, was on teams with known users from Caminti to Clemens, and seemed to look the part. We all agree, there's no evidence. That's the story. Biggio on the other hand is given a clean slate, much like Jeter is. Because they have this "Integrity thing" that Bagwell would have had if not for the whole era. I think they will let him sneak in with Biggio because they can do that, and people won't blink. If he has to go in alone, think it gets much harder. I think he should get in because there is no evidence. But if there was evidence, it would not surprise me or anyone on here. I still think it's amazing that there's little talk of the connection to Latin America, where it seems almost 90% of the users originate from, and all for the same reason, why not, lot of money, and it works. We have how many MVPs and Cy Young winners now caught? A ton. It's a difference maker.
Even without the steroid issue, I think there are a lot of voters who don't appreciate how good Bagwell was. Dating back to 1990, only Griffey, Bonds, A-Rod and Pujols had better 10 year primes than Bagwell, and people will never view him on that level. Instead they are more concerned with stupid milestone numbers like 500 HR and 3000 hits, and arbitrary awards like MVP's and (mid-season) all star selections.
He certainly seems to have the same, word for word, thoughts that you do! Even quoting the same words for no apparent reason! Even picking the same writer out of hundreds to make a point! CRAZY! It should say wouldn't out Bagwell, not didn't out Bagwell. My mistake. By outing Biggio or Bagwell he tarnishes both Biggio and Bagwell.
Criminally underrated. If bags played in New York or Boston he would be considered an all time all timer.
THIS. What a stupid, ridiculous joke. And, as long as Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, and Roger Clemens are out while McGraw and Perry and Cobb are in, the "hall of fame" has no credibility whatsoever. Bunch of pious ingrates riding their ridiculous selective moral high horses.
Bagwell should be in HOF before Biggio without a doubt. Biggio was better friends with Cammy than Bagwell was. I worked out at the same gym as Bagwell, and I know his ex trainer extremely well. He was at the gym EVERY damn morning at 5am. His body transformed from his rookie yr, because he started lifting for the first time in his life. He lost the muscle mass after he retired, because his shoulder is shot and he can't lift heavy weights.
What particularly drives me nuts about Bagwell's perception. The HOF voters are the crusty "baseball" guys who praise baserunning, and fielding, yet choose to completely overlook it when it comes to evaluating how good a player was. Frank Thomas, who is unquestionably a HOF player, was a poor fielder and baserunner, if he played the field at all. Bagwell was one of the smartest baserunners in the game, and an excellent fielder, but national guys will never, ever give him credit for that.
That's an interesting interview you posted of Bagwell, Rick. That's the first I ever heard of Bagwell's problem relating to the specific exercises he was doing that were more geared towards body building than strength and range of motion. That makes sense.
If Caminiti was using steroids when he and Bags were coming up, why did his numbers jump so significantly when he went to San Diego? All they really have against Bagwell is the muscle mass he added when he was playing. But honestly, look at the group of people who've been busted for steroids. Did they all fit that profile? It's easy to mindlessly speculate about players who might have or might not have used, but I bet you couldn't find a profile that fit all or even a majority of the confirmed steroid users. Many of them, like Pettite, didn't seem particularly muscular or bulky.
It wasn't just Cammy that people point too. Add in Steve Finley and Luis Gonzalez and their sudden power surges....'
After they left Houston. Caminiti, Finley and Gonzo hit for very little power as Astros. They went elsewhere and then had massive power surges.
Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious. My point was to anyone that thinks the only reason Bagwell got bigger was because he took steroids. You take a person who's never lifted before (or on a consistent basis), and you introduce them to weights and the right nutrition program that incorporates lean protein and trust me you will put on muscle mass. Bagwell should have been a first ballot HOFer. For a HOF voter to not vote him in just because he played in the steroid era, and thus he has to be guilty is just pathetic. Show me one single piece of evidence that Baggy cheated. Tell me one player/Mgr who has come out and accused Bagwell of cheating, or has a shred of evidence that may show he's guilty. Name a trainer that has accused him, or a writer that has uncovered anything that proves he was a cheater. One of the side affects of steroids is getting bad acne. This is one of the accusations against Piazza as it was widely known that he had horrible acne on his back. There isn't any such evidence against Baggy. Again either you have evidence that Baggy was a cheater or you don't, and if you don't how in the world can you not vote him in. Where's the evidence?
