[Chron] Andre Johnson no longer wants to be a Texan

http://www.chron.com/sports/article/Falcons-WR-White-agrees-to-4-year-extension-5643643.php

Just as reference, the approach of the falcons to their 32 year old 2nd option wr.

 

Andre is in the Top 10 of just about every all-time receiving stat except TDs. He will get in the HOF as long as he doesn't retire right now and have any significant injuries that will limit his play.

 

Well not yet, but he is soon to be. Guys that have a ton of "good" seasons that add up to impressive career numbers struggle, Andre has had numerous super dominant seasons, if he can make it a couple more solid years, he's gold.

 

don't see how that has much to do with AJ, especially since AJ's cap number is twice his.

 

Well that's certainly how this could be fixed, have AJ agree to a new deal that cuts his cap hit in half and he stays on the team.

 

reconstructing his deal again. low cap hit and committing to him for the next 3 years.

question is, 3 years from now. Will he still be the best WR on the team?

the scary part is that he still could be if the other WR dont step up.

 

I don't think he really wants to take a pay cut like that, but maybe they offer him that before cutting him next year. As to if he'd be the best WR on the team in 3 years? Almost certainly not. In fact, it would be questionable if he'd be the best WR on the team going into the season after this one. DeAndre Hopkins is an absolute stud WR and Andre will be hitting the age that WR's usually fall off a cliff.

 

Lmao...!!!!

 

If the Texans cut him after this year and he ends up in a place like New England or another playoff team with a good quarterback and can have a good 2 years with a championship appearance _ he's definitely in.

 

Not so sure.

Rule changes and new crop of receivers will can change all of that.

 

Sigh...

 

Yeah, it's pretty sad that some don't see it. Oh well, give it a year or so and I'm sure everyone will be on board pretending that they saw it all along.

 

I think it's plainly obvious why you emphasize yards/game........

It's a viable stat, no question. But it's not a generally accepted benchmark (meaning it's not a number the PFWAA will rally around) and it's far from the only effective measure of a WR. No team ever won a game by virtue of gaining more yards than their opponent. Touchdowns still matter and I think you're being wildly delusional to think yards/game is going to cover-up for AJ's alarmingly few TDs. (Or that the vast majority of voters would consider it over TDs. Just because it's important to you...)

...ton of yards, catches and touchdowns. In Andre Reed's case, a ton of Super Bowl appearences, too.

In fact, if you want to talk compliers, didn't Andre Johnson essentially compile huge numbers in meaningless losses for bad, irrelevant Texan teams? If you don't think that's a viable stumbling block to his candidacy, your head is swimming in sand.

The PFWAA have very clearly set some definable parameters for WRs; namely:

THEY ARE FAR LESS ESSENTIAL THAN EVERY OTHER POSITION IN FOOTBALL
There are only 23 modern era WRs in the HoF, the fewest number among all positions - and each team starts at least 2 of them. And just 8 since 2000 – although three of those selections (Hayes, Swann and Stallworth) waited 29, 12 and 10 years for enshrinement. In terms of players who played post-1990, there’ve been six inductees.

WINS MATTER
Carter was the first Super Bowl-less WR to be elected since Charlie Joiner in 1996 –a 17-year gap; those two along with Charley Taylor and Steve Largent are the only WRs to be elected since 1980 that didn’t have at least one SB appearance on their resume (and only Lofton and Reed were ring-less, though they did combine to appear in seven SBs). Warfield, Maynard, Blientikoff, Swann, Stallworth, Irvin, Monk, Hayes and Rice all had at least one ring and most of them had multiple rings.

THEY NEED TO BE PATIENT
Largent, Rice and Warfield are the only first ballot WRs since 1980; the other 12 waited, on average, 8.5 years (minus the mandatory five-year waiting period) to get in. Taylor was the shortest (2 years) and he, along with Irvin (3), were the only WRs that didn’t wait at least five years. Bob Hayes waited 29 years.

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Among eligible WRs, Tim Brown has been a finalist the past five years; I don’t see him suddenly losing steam. Among retired but not-yet eligible WRs, Harrison, Moss and Owens are no-brainers (though none will be first ballot, IMO; Moss/Owens because of PFWAA self-righteous “punishment”); Bruce, Holt and Ward will receive deep consideration, as will possibly Rod Smith (he and Ward are borderline considerations likely pushed into the mix because of multiple rings). Among AJ’s contemporaries who are 30+ and guaranteed to have strong candidacies: Wayne, Fitzgerald and Welker. I also think Steve Smith is very viable; less so Anquan Bolden (who is still a likely, if distant, possibility to get support).

So that’s seven legitimate candidates who will be on the ballot before AJ; three peers who are also legitimate candidates who *could* be on the ballot before AJ; and three more who could be on the ballot before AJ and will receive at least cursory consideration. And this is all going to be conducted under the growing shadow of Calvin Johnson, who’s roughly six Calvin Johnson seasons away from 1,000 receptions, 20,000 yards, 125 TDs. And he’d be 34 at that time.

Meanwhile, because of the mandatory five-year waiting period, guys like Jones, Green, Bryant, Jeffrey, etc. - young studs, in a pass-happy league - could all potentially rewrite the record book before AJ is eligible.

Like Bagwell, I think AJ could be a victim to some silly, ancillary arguments (in AJ’s case: the Texans and their perpetual losing) and a stacked ballot in which his exceptional career doesn’t stand-out as much as it should.

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I hate having these discussions because it forces me to bag a little bit on AJ, who I think is a tremendous player and HoF worthy. But the idea he’s a first ballot guy? That flies in the face of verifiable reality, as does the notion he’s an eventual lock. He probably is – but I don’t think it’s a slam-dunk.

 

If by "just about every" you meant "one" - sure. The only top 10 he appears in currently is yards/game.

This is part of the Andre Johnson conundrum - the average Texan fan vastly overrates his production with a slew of caveats he has little exclusivity over (again, go back and look at the QBs Calvin Johnson has had throwing to him and tell me how much Matt Schaub has killed Andre Johnson’s career). He’s unquestionably great and he’s a legitimate HoF candidate (even if he were to retire tomorrow… which he might very well do, btw – if this is a protracted holdout, he might end up flushing his age 33 season down the drain). But I think too many fans have the red/blue and white blinders on with him and are little head/sand when it comes to where he fits into the larger picture. There are A LOT of great WRs out there.

 

It's not so much that I think it's important, it's that guys who have multiple 90+ yard seasons don't struggle to make the HOF, guys who don't have any 90+ yard seasons do struggle to make the HOF.

Since the WR position isn't considered as important as others, you have to show true dominance at the position, not just 15-20 decent seasons that led up to impressive totals. I value what actually gets guys elected and I understand why compilers like Cris Carter struggled to get elected. You look at Cris Carter's career and he topped 1300 yards only once in his career, so while he was a phenomenal red zone target he wasn't the all around dominant WR like Rice, Andre, Harrison, or Calvin....those are first ballot kinds of guys.

 

I actually believe Moss will be a 1st ballet HOF inductee... He was much watch TV and a game changer and had a year like no other when he went to the SB with New England. I think his antics will be overlooked because they were not as blatant as TO's.

Other than that, can't disagree with anything you said. Although I do think AJ will get in even if he finishes his career with the Texans but as you stated he will have to be patient. He does have Pancakes on his side who is well respected (outside of Houston) so he does have help. As long as Pancakes doesn't have congestive heart failure he will go to bat for AJ every year.

 

Other than Jerry Rice, who are these guys with multiple 90+yard seasons that have sailed into the HoF?.....................

There've been three first ballot WRs since 1980; two of them (Largent and Warfield) did not have a 90 y/g season. Charley Taylor went in on the second ballot - no 90 y/g season. Irvin (3 years) had two 90 y/g seasons. Biletnikoff, Joiner and Lofton all went in within five years: zero 90 y/g seasons.

So, again, I'll ask: who are the guys with multiple 90+yard seasons that are sailing into the HoF?

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BTW...

I did a deeper dive and will concede - AJ's done it five times and that's fairly remarkable when you consider Randy Moss has only done it twice. So I'll grant you it's uniquely impressive. But I still think it's randomly arbitrary and not near strong enough to overcome the mounds of obstacles that are definitively in his way. It’s not hard to imagine the voter mentality being all those yards and…? He didn’t turn them into TDs; he didn’t help his team win.

 

The PFWAA isn't nearly as pious as the BBWAA - but that's not to say they aren't independently pious. He was disliked by the media, generally, and had some run-ins. And he has documented instances of flat-out quitting on multiple teams, in addition to a reputation of being lazy - neither of which plays well with fat, old white guys like Peter King. I think those things are going to hurt him - though, I agree: he was electrifying in his prime and a near no-brainer first ballot, otherwise.

 

Well it is an arbitrary number, but the reason I set the bar there is because so few people have done it. It's like the 500 homerun mark in baseball, it's an arbitrary number, but it's picked for a reason, same goes for 3000 hits. Now in baseball the voters are much more strict and there are a bunch of PED witch hunters screwing things up....but I digress.

I would argue for a WR 90 yards per game is the very definition of a "dominant" season and I don't think you could make an argument that any WR that hits that mark was any less than dominant. When it comes to halls of fame, I think that's what people value when voting. Andre Johnson being by far the best WR in the game for several years is more impressive than Cris Carter's consistently solid play and I think the votes will reflect that.

As to the "he didn't turn them into TD's, he didn't help his team win", were they saying that about Calvin Johnson a few years ago when he broke the receiving yards record and only had 5 TDs on the year? Of course not. When you are a WR that puts up 90+ yards a game you are a player that simply can't be stopped, TD's are a situational stat more than anything. If you have really good red zone TE's or a really good red zone run game, WR's won't necessarily get the TD count but if they are moving the ball 90+ yards every game, they are dominant. The number for RB's is pretty much the same 90+ yards from one player is amazing.

 

But he will be there. He's only 55 receptions and about 1110 yrds away from being Top 10 in those categories. He can reach that in one really good year, or two decent years if healthy. Hes 2nd in yards/per like you mentioned. The only place hes lacking would be TDs with only 61