I have always believed that there are those that bring power to the people and find a way to break monopolies. I despise government mandated and cartel-like behavior by trade groups and others to subsidize their own member class at the expense of every American in this country. Whether it is Ethanol mandates or power of the American Medical Association, these cartels force all Americans to pay more for their services in order to subsidize a select few people. This is wrong. It is un-American. There are individual crooks that are stealing a $100, a Wall St. Madoff type guy stealing a billion and then there is the AMA forcing us to spend probably $50 billion more a year on healthcare costing each American around $200 a year extra to subsidize the overpayment because of the shortage. These are huge market dislocations that I enjoy analyzing because most people emotionally won't think about it and then won't rationally break down the adverse effect on all Americans.
This thread shows what it is like if you want to reform the medical care field in the US, if you want to cut the cost, you are taking someone's income. It does not matter if that person is making 50k or 500k a year, they will not like it and try to stop the change if they can at all help it. Doctor's salary is only one portion of the total healthcare cost. You will face just as stiff a resistance if you try to change how hospital charges patients or how drug makers charge for medications. It will be extremely hard to change the system until such a time when it is about to crash down on all of us. Can you imagine if 20 or 30 years from now the medical sector is 35% of the whole economy? Add another 30% for the defense sector, that should be a fun time for everyone: Drugs and Guns FTW!
That goes back to much of my fears about giving organizations that lobby for a specific group not just lobbying power, but power to affect the dynamics of supply and demand within their area. The AMA really goes over the top though to benefit doctors as it isn't just a lobbying body, but it is also the group that permits new medical schools to be built and helps create the rules that ultimately drive all healthcare towards the physician bottleneck. That would be like if a lobbying group representing Pfizer, Merck etc. had the authority to stop new pharmacutical companies from going public or stopping their ability to raise capital to fund new ventures. This would benefit the groups already in market but would hurt the overall population. The AMA's regulatory control is really dangerous and financially destructive to the tune of hundreds of dollars a year for every American.
You do realize that doctor's salaries are a tiny tiny portion of your healthcare costs, correct? Do you understand that concept?
So am I supposed to ignore something because it is not the biggest problem? When you have 300,000 or so physicians in the US all having their earnings 30-50% higher than most comparable countries, that is a huge figure that is coming out of every American's pocket. As a problem solver, one must focus on an issue that can be rectified and then move to another problem. I'm simply addressing a problem that is never even discussed, and yes it is reflective of the failures of the entire system. Healthcare is around 15% of the US Economy, of which around 2/3 is paid by consumers and a third by government. It is crushing American families with bills on all fronts based on the silly notion of unquestionability of things based on the notion of 'safety'. Under the fear of safety we are enabling many to profit off the American Public. This 'one big easy change to fix everything' belief is why nothing gets done and why lobbying groups and organizations manipulate the process to enrich themselves.
So every respective job should be paid the same in every different country? Got it. Maybe we should abolish the undergraduate education system in this country as well... since it doesn't exist in other countries. Another reason why its "easier" to become a doctor abroad... less undergraduate education, and less rigorous training programs. You said it yourself that doctors from foreign countries shouldn't be getting paid as much as US/Harvard trained doctors... you're all over the place. The bottom line is that doctors are largely worth what they're paid based on years of education/training/skills/work load (ever see a not busy doctor?)/and risk.... and after all that, doctors salaries are now a fraction of what they were just 20 years ago.
There are a lot of things i would like to say, but several intelligent posters have addressed this idiocy...Btw if I was in the profession of medicine to make money, I would be a total idiot; I wouldve chosen to work in NYC on Wall-street. Everyone wants to be a doctor, few have the talent, and even few have the drive...
This is so typical. The guys bashing me calling me an idiot are all doctors that benefit from this subsidy. Then ends with "EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A DOCTOR, FEW HAVE THE TALENT AND EVEN FEW HAVE THE DRIVE". That is such hubris and arrogance That it is scary. No one has refuted a point of mine except a couple of med school guys Who think they deserve that and more. Ive been called jealous, an idiot and more in this thread and yet no one Has refuted the AMAs abuse of power that's left us in a dire shortage of Doctors in the US. That shortage has led to the arrogance of the Few ones posting here because they must know in their heart that they Are taking money from the poor to subsidize their overpayment. Pathetic.
Lol, Indian? Few want to be a doctor to genuinely help patients. It's their out to receive status. That being said, I don't have any issue with doctor salaries. What I do I have an issue with is for profit hospitals and pharmaceutical companies that do the ACTUAL inflation of healthcare costs in this country. I have worked in agriculture my whole life so put an emphasis on eating an dliving healthy so we do not have to deal with the wretched healthcare system that essentially preys on the weak and helpless. Sadistic capitalist tendencies at their finest =/
Brother I see where you are coming from but it's a much bigger issue than doctor salaries. More research needs to be done on your behalf. I have an Indian friend and Id reckon most of the aspiring doctor's in here are from that background, where they feel it is the greatest profession ever. While no easy field to graduate, employment and status within the community are guaranteed and that propaganda is a powerful driving force for many.. .. but as the 3 + generations start to integrate I'm sure minorities will stop letting the medieval notions that all doctor's are honorable, good hearted, non manipulative types go.
That is a good one, you honestly believe most doctors choose the profession not based on the income potential of the field? They might have other reasons as well, but income is definitely one of the top reasons.
Well, I guess the best way to increase the number of doctors is to lower their pay. Because why WOULDN'T someone want to put themselves through 10-15 years of hell to make the same amount of money that they would by just getting a regular job out of undergrad? Let's see...10-15 years of stress and hell combined with one of the most stressful jobs in existence for a normal salary comparable to someone with 5 years of normal work experience. Yep...that should get the pool of people wanting to do this WAY UP! Perfect solution! Outrage quelled! I love that you keep saying doctor's salaries are being subsidized by the poor, despite the fact that this is actually incorrect. Health care costs are out of whack due to: an unhealthy, aging American population, the fact that doctor's are forced to run tons of tests on any patient to rule out everything so that they don't get sued if they misdiagnose, the fact that HOSPITALS (not doctors) are for-profit businesses that only care about the bottom line and overcharge for everything (again...this doesn't go to the doctors), the fact that there is rampant medicare fraud (IE setting up clinics and charging insurance tons of money for patients and tests who are not really sick over and over...this is costing the system billions but we do not prosecute this as it is a ton of work to convict), the prescription drug charges that are way out of whack, the premiums for medical malpractice insurance due to our extrmely litigious society and the list can go on and on. But hey, let's focus our outrage on doctor's salaries and the fact that somehow this is taking advantage of the poor. While you are at it, let's start a thread bashing Jiff Peanut Butter for doubling their prices over the last 5 years which probably has a MUCH greater impact on the poor than a doctor making $250k per year after being a slave for 10-15 years prior and healing sick people and saving lives. I would bet the annual extra price paid for peanut butter is higher per poor person than the actual charge of a doctor's salary factored into their medical bills Edit: I do agree they should have more doctors and med schools and let more people try to practice medicine. But that's where our agreement ends
Meh.... There are several things that need to happen. First, the idea that only the very best students are the best doctors is not true. Other important factors are listening to patients, bed manner, etc. Some of the best surgeons were not #1 or #2 in their class. Sometimes you need to think outside the box. I would not have an issue with making it a little easier to become a doctor. Some of the best doctors did not go to top 5 schools either. Second, the cost of medical school and a secondary education is insane. Part of the reason that doctors make more, is because they have literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans when they graduate. That has to be decreased. Third, yes in general doctors make too much. I deal with specialists on a day to day basis that easily make $500,000 or more a year. I think that the GP's should be compensated better, and the specialists should make less under certain circumstances. Fourth, the hospitals are in some cases making huge amounts of money and the doctors less so, this should be limited IMO. Fifth, being a doctor (especially at first) can be a very stressful profession. They are one lawsuit away from never working again, they are not allowed to make mistakes and they often deal with angry and stressed out patients. There need to be changes made to the malpractice insurance premiums. Anyone that thinks that an MD should make what other people make is foolish, however there should be limits. Being an MD in many cases is a stressful job and not one that you can just call in sick for.
If you use simply an RVU-based compensation system, you'll still see the specialists make more... because they're usually being referred a challenging or more specific case that involves advanced techniques/training to cure. Specialists train longer than GP's, face tougher competition for residency/fellowship spots, and in the case of cardiologist and surgeons--take on far more acute life-threating/high risk patients. That being said, they need to incentivize something to get more medical students encouraged to go into primary care. Right now, they're the dumping ground of the medical field.
Your position and crusade on this issue sounds personal. So you couldn't get in or cut it in med school; maybe try dental school, nursing, or custodial arts.
The problem is we have a 8 year medical degree. If you do finance undergrad how much is that finance undergrad going to help you with being a doctor. Or if you do biology and you don't get into medschool you just wasted four years of your life. Med school should just be 5-6 years. You should cut out all the BS time spent on undergrad.
