Yes, Casspi does have a slower release. LOL...what kind of release does Jones have? Jones' release is slower than slow and the defenders don't want to close out on him. They dare him to shoot it...which he doesn't most of the time, thereby forcing our offense to try to run a secondary play with the clock running down. Casspi is not a great finisher but he is good enough especially when playing alongside a rebounder like Dwight. Jones/DMo don't give us an edge on the glass or defending the post either. LOL No, he doesn't have more athleticism and handles than TJones. He has more overall basketball skill including the #1 key skill, the ability to shoot a basketball, that Jones does not possess. No, he doesn't move the ball when playing on the scrub unit. He chucks it. Now...that's a given. Do you really think he'd be chucking it up with the starters out there or do you think he would be more selective knowing that if he chucks it he's going to sit down for a long time?????? True. Very limited sample sizes for both Casspi and DMo with the first unit. But what we do have is a very good sample size of Jones with the other 4 starters going against playoff contenders. We know what that looks like. We know the numbers, the advanced metrics, everything we need to know. Our starting unit cannot consistently trump those other starting units and in fact we are under water against the playoff teams in the West and the top 3 contenders in the East. So....when you look at the lineups....who should be considered for replacement? Harden? Dwight? Parsons? Bev? or Jones? (not Rocket science here). No, McHale is not anti-Semitic. (That wasn't worth commenting on really. But you shouldn't have even suggested it.) Here's what has transpired this season. Jones got dinged in preseason. We played the last 2 or 3 games of the preseason with Howard and Asik starting. They looked ok and with Casspi being plugged in behind one of the bigs for shooting/spacing they looked really good. We dominated Memphis in the preseaon with the Twin Towers. I think we beat the Spurs with it too. Then we started the regular season and looked ok but we got beat by the Clips. McHale tried to run Dwight on Blake and Asik on DeAndre. Wrong matchups. Asik has the quicker feet out on the floor in space. Should have been the other way. Asik on Blake and Dwight on DeAndre. We lost. Then we lost a fluke game to the Lakers with the Twin Towers. Bad shooting, etc. Just one of those early season flukes. Then we lost to the Clips again with the same combinations, no adjustments made on the bigs. We then lost to Philly with Harden out injured and Asik only playing limited minutes. The Twin Towers was declared a failure and Jones was handed the opportunity to start. I suspect mostly because Casspi was doing well coming off the bench behind the starters and they didn't want to upset that second unit chemistry and scoring punch. Because Jones had really done nothing to deserve being promoted to the first team. It was simply a matter of Asik's attitude being bad and McHale declaring the Twin Towers a failure. Jones however did come out of the chute with the starters shooting 10/21 (47%) on the 3-ball up until December 1. That early shooting streak along with his rebounding and help D cemented him in as the starter and he has remained there since despite shooting a terrible 19/73 (26%) on the 3-ball from December 1 until now. If you will recall we had a lot of discussion back in November and early December about if Jones could continue shooting the 3-ball that well. We all knew he couldn't maintain the high 40's but some of you thought he could shoot 33-36% the rest of the way and wind up in the high 30's for the season. I didn't believe that. Just looking at his form I knew he was going to eventually crash back to earth on his shooting. But.....we won enough games with him starting that his shooting really hasn't become an issue. And to compound matters Casspi's shooting went south with the bench brigade. Also, if you will recall, DMo wasn't playing any at all. The only reason he started getting minutes is because he requested a trade OR at least to be sent to RGV so he could play. Morey approached McHale asking him if he planned on giving DMo minutes because if he wasn't Morey was going to let him go to RGV and play. It was at that point that McHale started giving DMo minutes and DMo has played well enough to continue to get minutes. Well, with the emergence of DMo that further pushed Casspi out of any rotation minutes and he was relegated to mop-up duty...where he has turned into an obsessive chucker. (I hate that about him. He plays absolutely stupid out there in mop-up.) So...Jones is riding the coattails of what he did the first few weeks of the season and we have won enough games that McHale hasn't made any changes. (There's another dynamic that I believe is in play here. I'm putting this in parentheses because I know that there are a lot of you that will disagree with this. But it is my belief anyways. When Jones should have been benched he was not because if he were benched his trade value would have gone in the toilet and Jones was the player we were dangling alongside Lin to possibly move Lin's contract. Just my opinion, but I think Morey talked to McHale about keeping Jones in there to maximize his trade value. Trade never happened though but it's still a possibility as soon as June 30th. So we really can't afford to crater Jones' trade value by benching him. We've got to continue to run him out there and hope he throws down some dunks and looks as good as possible with the starters. The reason I believe this is we are going against the metrics by continuing to run Jones out there for so many minutes. This organization is much smarter than that. We're still trying to get a 3rd superstar. If we had our 3rd guy and Jones was one of the rotation, I believe he would have already been sat down.) That's all in parentheses because it's my opinion and I can't back it up. It's conjecture on my part and I know most of you don't believe it. The truth is Jones has been playing very bad for a long time now. It's not as noticeable on a really good team when we are playing lottery teams. But it shows up consistently when we play great teams. Jones is essentially a garbage man offensively with no ability to shoot a jumper consistently from anywhere on the court. Jones DOES NOT want to shoot the jump shot even when the opponent leaves him wide open. And defensively Jones simply cannot hang with ANY of the top 15 power forwards in this league. He's gonna get iso'd up in the playoffs against them by our opponents and he's gonna get sent to the bench with foul trouble. Now...do I believe Casspi is a great player? Absolutely not. But Casspi is the superior shooter to both Jones and DMo. It's not even close. I happen to believe that for now Casspi should be the starter however. Because with Dwight in the middle you need the best possible shooter at the 3 to maximize Dwight in the post and to maximize the effectiveness of Harden/Dwight on the pick and roll. And Casspi simply does not give up that much more defensively than Jones or DMo gives up. I believe for us to be a championship contender that McHale is going to have to get a very short leash on the 4-spot no matter who is out there. If he starts Jones he can't afford to keep Jones out there if Jones is getting torched by the opposing PF defensively. He's got to bring in Asik on the bigger PFs or go small ball and move Harden down or Parsons over on smaller 4's that are spreading us out. By the same token if Jones can't hit a shot and the defense is funneling the ball to him...McHale has to go yank him and go with a shooter..either go with small ball or get Casspi/Garcia/etc. in there at the 4. And in my opinon, when you look at Garcia, Casspi, Parsons....Casspi is the guy best qualifed to fill that spread 4 spot. He's a little bigger and stronger than Parsons and definitely bigger and stronger than Garcia. DMo......he should be given a look with the starters. He has played very well alongside Asik. I really think that is where he should stay for the benefit of the second unit however. Because his post game can be used there. DMo's post game really can't be used if he is on the floor with the starters. He really needs to space the floor to add more effectiveness than Jones. We wouldn't be running plays for DMo in the post with Dwight in there. We could run plays with DMo in the post with Asik and the second unit. In finality, I don't think we have minutes for more than 3 bigs. 2 of those bigs are Howard and Asik. Howard and Asik have to get 30 minutes each for us to contend for a championship. That means they have to absolutely be out there for a few minutes together. And I think we will see this in the playoffs especially if we get Memphis or the Spurs or the Thunder or the Clips. Those 4 teams are going to necessitate us running Howard/Asik out there together to stop their bigs. When you consider this along with knowing we have to play small-ball a lot of times to stretch the floor I believe in the playoffs we are going to see at least one of Jones/DMo's minutes severely limited. Frankly, with the way both guys are playing right now...the odd man out should be Jones, with either Casspi or Asik becoming the starter and either Casspi or DMo as the 3rd big alongside Dwight/Asik. Will it happen? Probably not. I suspect Jones is our 2014 version of Chucky Brown...the default starter that plays 20-30 minutes during the regular season, who continues to start in the post season and averages about 10 minutes a game before he is jerked.
^ Oh geez. I'm not even going to bother. That's almost a page worth of opinion with nothing to back. At least my eye test opinion on Casspi with the starters was somewhat short and concise, and ASKING for folks like Joe-Joe to give me some backing as to why Casspi deserves a shot at PT in April when he's barely been able to crack the rotation since the first month of the season. Which means, I'm open to it, but I just dont see anything on the court that backs up why McHale should make that switch now going into the playoffs? Not arguing.... just asking to be convinced. Instead I get a half page opinion novel that really probably just boils down to Basketcasehollic thinking that Casspi should play because he shoots the 3 at a higher percentage, which is pretty much the only argument he really has. -As for the Mchale not playing Casspi cause either he's a racist against Jewish folks or simply because Casspi hasn't been doing something that Jones and D-Mo have been doing on the basketball court..... Obviously you have no sense of humor whatsoever. http://houston.culturemap.com/news/...hale-doesnt-respect-rockets-difference-maker/ The "McHale is racist" thing is a long-running joke because its that dumb. No he's not racist so answer me this question.... if there is nothing personal against Casspi, why did Jones and D-Mo BEAT HIM OUT for the past 4 months???
They didn't. I esplained how Jones got the starting job. It was handed to him. He had done nothing of merit in the preseason or in the preceding games to warrant being handed the starting job. It was a matter of McHale ending the Twin Towers experiment and taking Asik clear out of the rotation because of his attitude and subsequent injury and when Jones stepped in to the starters role he blistered the nets for the first month of the season. They kept Casspi with the second unit because he was providing instant offense off the bench. They elevated Jones past Casspi kinda like elevating Keenum past Yates. By the way I explained all this above. I oughta make this response a mile long too so you don't read it. (Like you didn't really read the above post.)
No I dont have all day to read your opinion pieces sorry. Again... this is all opinion. Your insinuating things (like trying to increase Jones' value for a trade) that have no backing whatsoever. I'm asking for actual basketball analysis of what led McHale to choose Jones over Casspi/Jones/D-Mo when the TT failed, and what led to D-Mo eventually weeding Casspi out of the PF rotation, and you just give generic opinion responses made to sound like fact. You are pretty much the CF version of Sean Hannity. Emotional opinion, packaged and sold as fact.
I gave a one paragraph opinion on Tjones and his trade value that you apparently did read otherwise you wouldn't have referenced it. And I did state very clearly that it was my opinion and conjecture and I had no proof of it. You originally wanted to read an argument for Casspi starting. I gave you that argument. It wasn't based on just opinion. But statistical and metrical factors, one of which is the fact that Jones cannot hit a jump shot (he's shooting 30% on jump shots for the season including in the paint), and he gets butchered by the top 15 power forwards in the league, which are the guys we are going to be facing in the playoffs, and our starting lineup is consistently trumped when we face the other top 8 WC playoff teams and Indy/Miami/Chicago in the EC. Those are the facts.
I think there have been some good posts in the past few pages from dobro, jtr, and basketballholic. I haven't read them all, so, I'm not sure who is of the opinion that Casspi needs to be getting more pt. But it's pretty obvious that won't be happening. And I think it's for the best. Aside from preseason, he looks terrible when he's out there. Even if he argument is that we need a stretch 4 in the playoffs. I'd much rather parsons play the 4 on offense and Harden guard the opposing post player on defense. The other 3 guys on the court being some combo of Bev/Lin/Canaan/Howard/Asik. That's how bad Casspi is. I'm also fairly sure we will see the strategy I just described in the playoffs.
My thoughts exactly. My point was that based on the eye test its pretty simple, but folks here seem to think there is some sort of stat that backs up why Casspi should be playing the 4, but I have yet to see anything that convinces me otherwise. All you get is an opinion piece about how awesome Casspi really is despite him not being able to beat out two 2nd year high upside prospect PF's. At this point in the season, I just dont see Casspi getting moved ahead of Jones & D-Mo. If he does, than great... that means he must be doing something pretty special that he didn't do before.... So Sorry folks. (Really all it comes down to is some folks here being butthurt that they were wrong about Jones & D-Mo in October, and Casspi is their way of validating that to say "look... he's actually better and should have been playing this whole time" so they can say they were right about something that doesn't matter)
I'm of the opinion that Casspi (or Asik) would be better starting alongside the other 4 guys but it is a weak opinion. I don't feel strongly about it. But I think we should find out what Casspi looks like with the starters b4 we hit the playoffs. I also think we should find out what DMo looks like with the starters. I frankly believe our PF slot is woefully lacking no matter which direction we turn. So my opinion basically boils down to this...you either get a great defender on the floor (Asik is far superior to Jones even on power forwards) alongside Dwight to maximize our defensive efficiency or you get an offensive floor spreader on the floor (Casspi is the best floor spreader of him/DMo/Jones) alongside Dwight and the starters to maximize our offensive efficiency. If I were McHale at this point in the season, knowing the possibilities of a blockbuster trade as early as June 30th, I probably would not take Jones out of the starting lineup simply for that reason. However I would be prepared to have a very short leash in the playoffs with him. I wouldn't hesitate to pull him early and look for more favorable matchups when it becomes clear that other teams are going to pick him apart. (They will.) And I'd be taking a peak now to see how the other guys looked with the starters..especially when we run up against a better team (next 3 games is about it). However, if I would have been McHale early this season..I would have insisted at the beginning that Asik get it together and make the Twin Towers work for at least 10 minutes a game. And I would have probably stayed with that and Casspi coming in off the bench behind them to spread the floor with the starters. Casspi has looked terrible recently and that is due to the fact that he is playing mop up and just throwing the ball up. He's trying to get 15 points in 3 minutes. Is that his fault? Yes. It is. It's on him how stupid he has played with the scrubs. But he is the only guy that we have that can consistently hit the 3-ball from the 4 spot unless we are going small with Harden or Parsons at the 4. In the limited minutes he has played with the starters we have outclassed the opponent. We need to exploit that possibility and find out if there is something there b4 we get to the playoffs and somehow think a miracle is going to happen with Jones up high and the ball in his hands.
Last time Casspi got meaningful minutes I remember cringing more than while watching Lin play. In the span of about 5 minutes he got scored on by who he was guarding seemingly every time they got the ball. Made some knucklehead turnovers. Missed two wide open threes and then got some ticky tack fouls. I'll look up the game when I'm home. But I distinctly remember it happening. It was terrible. I'm also of the opinion that if Casspi for whatever reason was going to be put into the rotation he would have been by now. The fact is that he was not. Rather he was actually taken out of the rotation after stretches of horrible play. I think there is definitely merit to the argument of not playing Jones heavy minutes in the playoffs because he shrinks against tough competition. I definitely believe that to be true. But the answer in no way shape or form is Casspi. If Jones is playing horribly id like to see the 4 minutes go to some combo of Parsons, dmo, Asik, and Garcia.
I believe you're right that Jones will have a very short leash in the playoffs. In many meaningful games this season, that has been the case. I feel that jones has more often than not put up meaningless stats against bad teams. That being said he's had some good performances against good teams as well. However as I mentioned he does seem to shrink against elite teams. So I believe you are right. That being said, one point you made is that Casspi has been playing terribly because he's just been in during garbage time. That might be partially why. But I have to disagree. I think ultimately the fact is that he just is not that good. Like I said earlier. He lost his spot in the rotation due to bad play. And he has not recovered. He's been in a "slump" for 90% of the season. The guy is just not very good. In the end dmo/Asik should get most of the 4 minutes if we play big. Otherwise parsons/Garcia (if the last okc game is any indication of McHale's willingness to cater to unique matchups on the fly) if we go small.
Casspi should not be playing the four especially during the playoffs. Defensively against most power forwards he is just road kill. It takes a Melo to deliver more offense than it costs on defense at that position.
Just to get your opinion....What do you attribute that shrinking against quality competition to? Youth, in-experience, incomplete skill set? or do you just think he's really a fools gold player that can only play well against sub par competition? IMO, I do think its sort of a myth that he shrinks every single time against a quality opponent, but I do agree that I've see quite a few disappearing acts when the team is really struggling, which of course is usually when the Rockets are facing a top notch opponent like the Clippers- (note: they've only lost what... 3 games to teams under .500 I think). 11/20 vs Dallas (lone bright spot in a tough loss) 12/6- Vs Golden State (16/ 10rebounds and 5 blocks key in that huge win) 12/13- vs GSW (some big rebounds & good defense down the stretch that helped) 12/25- Vs SAS ( 21pts/14 reb in a huge nationally televised game vs HUGE front line) 12/26 VS Mem (20 Pts in huge win vs huge front line) 1/16 Vs OKC (Double/Double in loss, but definitely scored well against huge front line of OKC) 1/28 Vs SAS ( almost duplicate performance of 12/25) 1/29 Vs Dal (almost duplicate performance of 11/20) 2/5 Vs Pho ( 19/ 9 reb in huge win) 2/23 Vs Pho ( almost dup performance as 2/5) 3/4 Vs MIA ( 19 Pts/ 12 reb in Huge win over world champs) So my personal opinion is that he's more than capable of having good performances against quality opponents but I will absolutely agree that he has games where he disappears. However there is a notion on here that for some reason he's just not going to show up for the playoffs which I disagree with completely. Sure its a possibility that he chokes, but he's shown that he can show up for big games in the past. Not sure why its inevitable he wont show up for any this post season, and force McHale to go with small ball. I think there is merit to the thought that Jones does have disappearing acts, but I think its a myth that its going to happen every time the Rockets play a quality opponent because in the West, the Rockets are playing quality opponents pretty much every night, and Jones as faired pretty well so far.
I think its mostly youth and inexperience. I did admit he's had good games against tough competition as well. But still, regardless of the reason he does shrink often times. I think what I dislike the most is he gets bullied hard by opposing pf's on the defensive end. Sure he gets some blocks and his weak side defense is good. But his man defense leaves a lot to be desired. When guys like zbo/griffin turn it on he can't do anything. It'd hard for him to even hold his ground. I think this also has to do with him being undersized. It still blows my mind when Bullard interviews big men on the team and everyone other than asik/motiejunas/Howard are smaller than him. This next part I'm going to say is purely subjective and I don't have much to back it up with. But it at least makes logical sense. Last year we had Greg smith manning the 4 spot. Is jones really that much of an upgrade over smith? Sure jones can put the ball on the floor. And sometimes he can hit the occasional 3. But regardless jones gets most of his points off dishes from harden and parsons. Similar to smith last year. If historical precedence is given credence i think jones will have a short leash in the playoffs. Similar to smith last year and jones in many playoff like games against contender teams this year. That's most of my basis for having that opinion. Can he show up and be a difference maker? Absolutely. At this point though I think he's the weakest link (assuming Beverley comes back healthy).
I have not seen this. Maybe most starting PFs that play for playoff teams, but then he generally is not played against these guys. Casspi lost his rotation spot because he was doing his Rudy Gay impersonation on offense....high usage, low, low efficiency
I agree that wouldn't have been a wise move. I didn't think getting rid of Patterson and Morris was a smart move either. But looking at the team now it was a very smart move. You are one of the good posters on here big timer. You always have great substance behind your argument. Thanks for the clarification.
You could replace Casspi with Jones in your statement. Jones has been roadkill defensively against the power forwards we will be seeing in the playoffs. They destroy Jones. And yes, it does take Melo to deliver more offense than it costs on defense at that position. Defensive rating???? Casspi is 105. Jones is 104. Jones has a 1% advantage on defensive rating. And he plays alongside who? And Casspi plays with who?
Parsons, Beverley, and Dmo have shrinked a lot against quality teams as well this season. Dwight and Harden have had their share of swrinking against these quality teams too homie. Jones have shown he can be the difference maker in several games this season. Dobro posted his quality games against elite competition but didn't post the ones against not so good teams. Not to long ago his 30 point effort help us win against a scrub team. That was one of the games Dwight was out, the other two games he scored 20 points and 10 points to help win those games.
Yeah, thankfully we had him when we played the Jazz and he gave us 30 because if he hadn't been there we'd have lost to that lottery team. Is that what you're saying????
So the Jazz are not a professional team anymore is what you are saying? That was not the only game this season he has stepped up when we needed him dude. Like I stated before give this young man some time to develop. He is doing much better than last season and has the potential to getting better.
