Wow, there are some serious homers in here. lol. I love lin but I can see that Irving is far and away better right now. Rubio is debatable because of his horrendous shooting ability.
If anything, LOF should have watched more of Lin's plays and theoretically know more facts about Lin than those who worship and parrot SAS. "Can't go left" "Exposed" "Small sample size" "85 percent". Those terms have been parroted 5 million times.
Yes, I followed the rockets because of Lin. You being an old timer does not mean you are an expert in all things basketball. Lin followers knows the very details vs you who watch "some" of his games and made "great" analysis and (in ur opinion) factual statements. If before, you can get away with posts like this, careful now. You are like Lin who will be scrutinized to every word you said.
Can you please remove, or at least edit your sig. That's not an accurate representation of what i've said. Please use actual quotes and not out of context. It makes it appear as if i believe Lin hasn't improved at all since he went undrafted and has a lot of flaws/holes, which is not what i've said.
Lin was not drafted from the beginning so he can't be any good. New forum members didn't join in the beginning, so they must be biased and ignorant. Your logic is consistent. No one can fault you for that.
I don't think either side is offering much "solid" evidence to back up what they are saying (except roxxy). Come on guys - step it up with the numbers/stats. There is plenty of evidence for either side. This is like watching monkeys throw ***** at each other. ENTERTAINING!!
Seriously, if you guys want to reply and bash me, at least read EVERYTHING. I know its a lot and maybe that's why y'all are skipping posts, but y'all are wasting your time.... I already said Lin was underrated, coaches/scouts missed.....only mentioned one or two fundamental flaws (one which lin mentioned himself, the other mentioned by Mchale), has improved since going undrafted, potential to be consistently good starter... And somehow that's changed to: OH MY GAWD RV6 SAYS LIN ISNT ANY GOOD BECAUSE HE HAS 99 FLAWS AND GOING LEFT IS JUST ONE!!
Basketball season just needs to start. Once we get games going we will have actual important/relevant **** to talk about. Until then we will keep talking about the past.
I think we are discussing Apple and Orange here. Someone focus on the individual skill set but Lin put a lot effort for playing team ball. So the “we” ball and “me” ball concept have a different result even for the same team. If we were in “we” ball time, we had a weak team and not perfect individual skill; we still can have BIG wins. For example we won over Lakers without superstars … But when we were in the “me” ball time, we could not do it.
Kyrie was already better than Lin in his rookie season despite only playing 13 college games while coming into a lockout season. Should probably also throw in the fact Irving had a much inferior team than Lin did last season. Lin had FOUR full seasons in college and has had two NBA training camps. It's not even debatable. As for Rubio his shooting is abysmal but in terms of playmaking, defending, court vision & B-Ball IQ it's like he's already a seasoned vet. He was Top 5 in assists in only his rookie season despite having a Usage Rate of only 19.5 that was less than Norris Cole for example. EDIT: Waiting for someone to throw in the fact that Lin's fearless, clutch, studious, a hardworker etc etc as if he's the only player in the League with those sort of qualities. Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of Lin but some of the expectations placed on this kid are absolutely outrageous. Some are even expecting him to carry us into the playoffs next year lol.
Defensively Rubio is a lot better than Lin. Offensively Lin is better. Offensively the Wolves were better with Rubio on the bench than they were with him on the floor. In terms of who I wanted on my team it depends on my roster. If I was a really good defensive team needing more offense I would take Lin. If I was a really good offensive team needing defense I would take Rubio. In terms of who will be better it will depend on whether Lin improves his defense & Rubio improves his offense. Right now the offensive gap between Lin & Rubio is really big much bigger than the defensive gap. Kyrie is terrible defensively he is actually the worst in the NBA. Both Kyrie & Rubio are better passers than Lin but who knows for how long that will be the case. Between Kyrie & Lin it is a hard decision. Both are young and good offensive players & incredibly clutch & both have had there share of injury's. Kyrie is much better outside shooter but Lin's assist rate is better (but then Lin had a more talented team last year). Big thing is that Lin & Kyrie's offensive gap is not that much but the defensive gap is massive with Lin having the uphand. Kyrie is much younger though. Tough choice between the two. In my opinion all three are really great players with tons of potential so it is a pick your preference kind of thing.
Yes cause Harvard is such a great basketball program. Two NBA training camps where he was the 15th man? He didn't get repetitions in Houston we know this. In GSW he was in the D-league. Kyrie came into the season knowing he was going to be starting & who his teammates are. He knew he had a job, Lin didn't have that luxury.
How funny the comparison of Kyle, Rubio, Lin turned out to be. Morey, at one time, was willing to trade major pieces for Rubio. He really thought Rubio could bring a championship to Houston. It really showed how far Lin had come along to be compared with Rubio, and glad Morey didn't pull the trigger. At this point, I just don't see Rubio being the center piece of a chip team.
Just some things I'll chime in before getting the **** out of this thread: Lin wasn't exactly fairly evaluated when going into the draft. Some of the fault is his, but some of the fault also falls on the scouts, who don't have the time or just don't feel like examining every aspect of a player. Some scouts fall too much in love with raw athleticism and just bank on athletic players reaching their potential. There's a reason Lin went undrafted, and there's a reason why plenty of people are backtracking on their actions and saying publicly how much they regret not getting Lin. If Lin went to UCLA (like Ben Howland wished he did in hindsight) and accomplished the things he did at Harvard there, wouldn't he at least be drafted in the 2nd round like Malcolm Lee and Tyler Honeycutt? Keith Smart, the former Golden State Warrior head coach, had a love affair with Acie Law, who was just not good, even as a backup. The Warriors were clearly going downhill by the end of the All-Star break, so why not develop a player like Lin, who while not good, at least showed more promise than Law, already a 4-year veteran? Yet, Lin would continue getting DNPs and being shuffled between the D-League and the bench with no playing time. Well, where is Acie Law now? Overseas. Lin has had 4 college seasons, but who were the great basketball minds of the Harvard basketball program who groomed him into a complete NBA player? How many took his dream of playing in the NBA seriously until his later years in college? He also has one training camp under his belt, the one with the Golden State Warriors, and had much less playing time than some of the other rookie names being thrown around in here. There was no second training camp for Lin, as he was cut by the Warriors on the first day of training camp, and he wasn't picked up by the Rockets until December 12 before getting waived again and picked up on December 27. So yes, I would call him a player who essentially finished his rookie season with one training camp. Lin has a lot of flaws. So do a lot of players, especially those that are essentially rookies. Comparing Lin to a golden standard is pretty unrealistic and is a standard that most young NBA players will fail to live up to. Can Lin go left? Yes. Can he shoot 3's? Yes. Does he do those tasks well? Average at best. Will he improve on them? I have very few doubts that he won't, based on his track record of improvements. Despite these flaws, he's an above-average starter, and the question now is whether he can propel his production to a level that will make NBA coaches choose him as a reserve for the All-Star game if he's not made a starter by fan votes. We'll see these next few years.
Irving is a poor defender sure but Lin is not much much better. They are both below averagish. As for passing. I don't see how Irving is the superior passer. They are around the same in that regard. The edge Irving has is in age(he is 3-4 years younger) and shooting ability(much better shooting than Lin sorry). That is why Irving is such a stud. Compare John Wall to Irving for instance. Wall's outside shot is garbage but Irving has a great outside shot. That is why Irving is performing so much better even though Wall may have more physical talents. Some people may not have the natural gifts to get a great jump shot no matter how hard they work. Players like Nash, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller just had that natural gift imo. I think Irving has Chris Paul like potential (maybe not as good). He will have a better outside shot but he won't have Paul's passing ability and court vision. He needs to work on his defense and passing imo.
I have nothing against Wall, Rubio and Irving, but Lin gets a lot more scrutiny on his flaws then the other three, combined. People say Linsanity's 7 game winning streak came only against weak competition or weak point guards, but arguably Lin's teammates when Melo and Amare was down was no better than Wall's, yet Wall couldn't help his team win in 2 years or elevate his teammates play. And we're arguing about Lin's bball iq. People say Lin only had a small body of work (plus injury is his main risk), yet the give Rubio a pass on these fronts. They say Rubio is only 20, is more talented and has more upside, but ignore that he has turned pro at 15 and hug skillset hasnt really hasn't improved much in that time, can't shoot and can't create for himself, and is average at getting to the rim. Irving had even smaller body of work in college, but became the first pick in the draft and rightly so became rookie of the year. But he was a much below average defender at PG position. People say Lin has a turnover problem, but ignored that his turnover ratio is same as Nash and Rondo. And forget he basically started running a team with limited NBA experience and a ivy league college pedigree, and got them to win immediately (something Wall hasnt been able to do in 2 years), was second amongst PGs last year in 4th quarter PER and his possessions led to high effiency shots at the rim and 3-pt shots, all these overlooked and only focused on turnovers. People say Lin can't go left, I say that despite a weaker left hand, he was still able to get to the rim, at a much better rate say than Lowry (not saying Lin is already a better player, but he was much better than Lowry at getting to The rim). I'd say people focused on pushing Lin to the left, because he was just devastating going to the right, especially in ISO situations. In fact, Lin's ability to create for himself and get to the rim with his left hand is probably better than Rubio's (but of course Rubio is s better passer with both hands). I just think Lin's weaknesses are magnified by people in a way quite under served for someone who was essentially a rookie And that some 'seasoned' clutchfans members throw out these sentiments against 'LOFs' joining clutchfans instead of welcoming them like they are Melo witherite a jealousy problem.
