or do we just have the knicks 1st rounder? Do we have two first rounders (ours and knicks) or just knicks? Thanks
In a nutshell, we have our first round pick if we miss the playoffs. If we make the playoffs, the pick goes to New Jersey (from the Terrence Williams trade). If we don't make the playoffs, we keep the pick and we owe a lottery-protected pick to New Jersey in 2013 (and the same routine/dance happens).
bad karma I know, but I'm gonna bet we have the #14 pick. I've seen this movie too many times before.
Sure hope not. It's crucial we make the playoffs. Otherwise, our obligations to NJ will hamper us in the future.
We have our own first round pick only if we miss the playoffs. Otherwise it goes to the Nets. We have the Knicks first round pick no matter what, unless it is pick 1-5. Right now I believe that would be pick#15. As of today, I believe we would have, lottery aside, picks #14 and 15. While I understand some think otherwise, I see absolutely no reason why the Rockets should make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed, if the difference between that and the 9th seed is one or two games (and play the Spurs or Thunder), considering they'd get to keep their lotto pick by missing the playoffs. As up and down as the Knicks have been, it's hard to see them falling behind the Bucks or Cavs. I think a #15 or #16 pick by way of the Knicks is a 95%+ likelihood. Our obligation to NJ this year hampers us this year. It's a time value proposition imo.
BimaThug has explained in detail how using two 1st round picks could hamper our Summer free agency plans -- every $million in cap room counts...and two #1 would lose us $3m in room. He says it could actually be better to get rid of the NJ obligation this year, and just use one pick...if we plan to maximize our salary cap room this summer. There is even an argument to trade the picks, so we have no rookie scale cap holds. He also points out that getting rid of the NJ obligation makes our pick next year free and clear to use in trades. imo, this summer is about our Salary Cap room for FAs and trades, not whether we have both the 14th and 15th pick. I have no problem making the playoffs and ending our NJ obligation.
I suggest Morey to trade our 2 first rounders to 6 second rounders, next year we will have a championship team.
can someone remind me the detail of that Memphis pick and Suns pick we obtain last season? I knew it at the time, but right now I am confused. For Suns pick we drafted at 23rd and trade it for D-Mo, where is the Memphis pick? did we sent it to Min in the trade?
That's fine and all. I just happen to think that if there is serious thought to any big name free agent coming here, DM will be able to make moves necessary to get there... including trading one of the 2 first round picks this year, which will get you something in return, that something potentially and likely being better than the Nets pick you owe next year. Moreover, as nice as salary cap space sounds, I'm not at all convinced it will come in that handy. Outside of the big two, there are very very very few unrestricted free agents out there that make the team anything more than very very marginally better. I'm definitely not pinning my hopes on Howard and Williams deciding they want to play together in Houston of all places. Nor am I super concerned about not having the ability to trade future picks next year. For one, he can pick up other picks through trade. For two, what are we missing out on - the ability to trade our 2014 first round pick for another Terrance Williams clone? In a worst case scenario - not sure if legal or how done, but just throwing out there - we can just offer the Nets the pick this year (assuming it's pick #14) if we absolutely had to, no? Maybe pick up a second rounder (which yes, I think is more valuable than losing in the first round of the playoffs.. crazy, I know, but I'll take another Chandler Parson or Llull potential than a first round exit). Long story short, I'm not Bima, and I'm not DM, but I believe either can structure around the liability of continuing to owe NJ a pick.
All the more reason to go all out to try and make the playoffs. The Rockets can contend in this unique and very open season. As long as they acquire the right short term contracts it won't hamper a proper rebuild.
To be clear, heypartner, I'm not saying DM shouldn't make moves to try and make the team better and a playoff contender. But I am saying, short of that, if it comes down to the last week of the season and we're fighting Minnesota for a playoff spot, I'm at most indifferent to whether we make it or not, and more likely prefer not to.
Free agency is typically about buying a known quantity, but also young guys with upside like Lowry. Given that we lose this pick eventually...versus a 14th pick, I'll take the known quantity with upside. Now, if we were tanking, that's a different story. But we're not, so back to you "as nice as a 1st round pick sounds, I'm not at all convinced a 14th will actually come in that handy" vs accumulating all the cap space you can muster. I honestly think you are merely stuck on the idea from early season discussions about tanking or something. This will be a #14 pick again if we keep it. Who cares versus an extra $1.5m to spend this summer and a likely #14-16 next year? imo, more cap room ... plus my thrill and the player's experience of the playoffs exceeds the value of your #14 pick, since we get it the following year anyhow.
Okay . . . January 26 to March 8 . . . seems long enough. I'm back. I generally agree with heypartner's sentiment, although I think he (and others) are overestimating the importance I place on the additional cap room a late lottery pick would occupy. I basically feel the pros of making the playoffs outweigh the cons: Pros: --The accomplishment (in and of itself) of "making the playoffs" --The experience (and potential increased trade value) for Rockets rotation guys --The higher regard in which free agents will hold a playoff Rockets team (however slight) --Removing the New Jersey pick obligation (allowing Rockets to offer other teams an UNPROTECTED 2013 or 2014 pick in future trades) --Increased 2012 cap room (this is wayyy down my list of "pros", though) Cons: --Missing the playoffs is inherently disappointing (aside from prospect of a top pick, which Rockets WON'T get) --Rockets rotation players' trade values decrease, being viewed as "losing players" --Non-playoff team viewed as less attractive free agent destination / may need to offer free agents (even) more to come to Houston --The New Jersey pick obligation will hamstring Morey for another year, at least --Rockets don't need the #14 pick (which, yes, will occupy more cap room) On the #14 pick: The Rockets already have Motiejunas, the Knicks' pick (#15-17 range, most likely) and possibly even Llull joining the team next year. It is highly unlikely that packaging picks #14 and #15 will allow the Rockets to move up considerably, so they may be stuck with those picks (see 2010, 2011). With Patterson, Morris and Parsons already on the roster (not to mention Greg Smith or the 2012 MIN 2nd rounder they have), there simply is not enough room on the roster (and definitely not in the rotation) for so many similarly-situated rookies. If fans are pissed that Marcus Morris isn't playing this season, then I can't wait to hear what they'll say when the 2012 #14 pick is playing in the D-League and racking up DNP-CDs all season long. Yes, even in a rebuilding year. Bottom line: There's just no point to HOPING that the Rockets miss the playoffs this year. Not at this point. The #14 pick just isn't worth it and, in fact, will be more of a hindrance than an asset to the team next season (especially if Morey feels he could get the same guy with the Knicks' pick). P.S. With the trade deadline approaching next week, let's get this BBS's game face on and start elevating the overall level of posts. This thread has been a good start so far.
