no offense but carrying over from my comments in the non hangout thread.... these studies on HCQ only or HCQ + aryhtro are nice but at this point do seem fairly conclusive as to not being all that useful. the question is in Vick data on the triple drug combo. and a quick google on that is at least somewhat promising. Eg. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1 After adjusting for the time at which zinc sulfate was added to our protocol, an increased frequency of being discharged home (OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.12-2.09) reduction in mortality or transfer to hospice remained significant (OR 0.449, 95% CI 0.271-0.744). Conclusion: This study provides the first in vivo evidence that zinc sulfate in combination with hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19. Or Zelenkos study himself which maybe is still waiting peer review?? I’m not sure... I just know that for some reason there seems to be interests on both sides that are not pure science and treatment related but are political or capitalistic in nature. Just want solid science.
well, again, going back to the non d&d thread, I have personal experience with even just anecdotal stuff being ahead of the fda. In my case with Levaquin which is now black box warning but wasn’t previously despite the fact that there was tons and tons of anecdotal research (pre, pre, pre print , lol...) showing how horrible it is for you. I also have experience (indirectly, not me) with other such situations (Hernia meshes) in the medical field. relevance? In my view ALL data has value and is worth collecting, researching, analyzing and following up on, without bias.
I am not saying that this won't be ultimately published, but it's a COVID pre-print from May. It's almost August. Journals are very quick to put this out one it passes peer review and after reading I would be a reviewer 2. The biggest unaddressed confounder in this retrospective study is was the triple regimen temporally distribution similarly to the non-zinc therapy with the reasoning that if zinc was being tried in the latter part of the spike then treatment modifications alone could account for the reported decrease in mortality in non-ICU inpatients, especially since the ICU mortality was unchanged. I know from first hand we were treating COVID patients differently in mid March than at the end of April. And we are treating them differently now in July than in April. There are at least 12 RCTs right now looking at zinc and COVID, so if the data is there it'll be published. But right now, the evidence does not support the use of HCQ/AZT for COVID. I would not take it nor recommend it to anyone I cared about. Remdesivir and dexamethasone? No question. What about this very cheap option? Wear a mask! https://ucsf.app.box.com/s/blvolkp5z0mydzd82rjks4wyleagt036 (In press) ABSTRACTAlthough the benefit of population-level public facial masking to protect others during the COVID-19 pandemic has received a great deal of attention, we discuss for one of the first times the hypothesis – compiling virologic, epidemiologic and ecologic evidence- that universal masking reduces the “inoculum” or dose of the virus for the mask-wearer, leading to more mild and asymptomatic infection manifestations. Masks, depending on type, filter out the majority of viral particles, but not all. We first discuss the near-century old literature around the viral inoculum and severity of disease (conceptualized as the LD50 or lethal dose of the virus). We include examples of rising rates of asymptomatic infection with population-level masking, including in closed settings (e.g. cruise ships) with and without universal masking. Asymptomatic infections may be harmful for spread but could actually be beneficial if theylead to higher rates of exposure. Exposing society to SARS-CoV-2 without the unacceptable consequences of severe illness with public masking could lead to greater community-level immunity and slower spread as we await a vaccine. This theory of viral inoculum and mild or asymptomatic disease with SARS-CoV-2 in light of population-level masking shows the benefits of mask-wearing for the individual (as well as others) as a pillar of COVID-19 pandemic control.
very useful thanks. Still confused as to why you referenced HCQ/AZT and not the three drug cocktail? which is part of my point/question - why so few studies on this cocktail?
Why would I think supplemental zinc is the missing element compared to HCQ/AZT alone if the majority of Americans are not deficient in dietary zinc and high doses of zinc are otherwise toxic? Trials are underway either way.
An ophthalmologist alerted authorities in China to a rise in SARS-like pneumonia cases. Of course, they have experience treating some of the mild COVID symptoms, since they are similar to the flu, but they are not qualified to treat moderate to severe cases. If someone has a moderate to severe case of COVID after receiving a positive test result and visits their local ophthalmologist or PCP for treatment, they are an idiot. The same is true if they take their child with a moderate to severe case of COVID to his or her pediatrician.
It's a fair question considering what some of these doctors have been claiming to work. I'm not an expert, don't know if you or @JayZ750 is an expert either, so I have no clue what this combination of drugs actually is suppose to do for your body.
Thank you for all that you are currently doing and for taking the time out of your busy day to craft this detailed response describing what is happening in the ICU where you are working. I apologize for getting your official title incorrect, and I corrected it in my post accordingly.
If you are experience mild symptoms of COVID and don't know it, what exactly do you do besides test yourself and isolate. Test results don't seem to be a quick turnaround so while you are experiencing these mild symptoms, wouldn't you consult with your doctor (PCP), even if it's via virtual means to get some direction? Maybe this is a stupid question, but I take offense for being called stupid to going to my doctor on a medical manner that is not an emergency.
I apologize for not being more clear, but I was referring to people that have received a positive COVID-19 diagnosis after being tested and experience a moderate or severe case. Those are the cases that would require hydroxycloroquine. I wasn’t trying to say someone is stupid for consulting with their PCP if they just started experiencing mild COVID-19 symptoms and have yet to be tested. I would hope their PCP would advise them to visit the nearest testing facility and take a COVID-19 test, along with providing advice on how to temporarily handle the mild symptoms until the test results come back. After you receive a positive COVID-19 diagnosis, you should not be relying on your PCP, opthamologist or a pediatrician in a child’s case for treatment. At that point, you either treat the mild symptoms like you would a cold or mild flu, or go to the hospital if things get really bad.
Yes, the majority of cases do not require an ER visit, and should be treated similarly to a cold or flu, while also requiring an individual to self-quarantine for 14 days, per published guidelines by public health organizations like the CDC and the WHO. However, there is no specific medicine or treatment your PCP, ophthalmologist, or child’s pediatrician will prescribe you other than standard cold and flu medications.
for one the reasoning is readily available on the internet. more importantly for two, the original protocol of which zelenko has a paper out there is for the three drugs in combo. The world of medicine is littered with “we were making drug x for purpose y but we actually found it to be super useful for purpose z. Totally unexpected!”
The fact that this still gets peddled because there are no laws against Donny or his appointed family members owning large stakes in their businesses is swampy to the billionth degree. ****ing waste of life, time, money and resources.
Zelenko is a quack too. He didn’t publish any actual data and like the semen demon doc I am more likely to believe he wasn’t even treating just patients with actual SARS-CoV-2 infection but anyone with URI symptoms with his cocktail.
Does anyone think that Trump is still pushing Hydroxychloroquine because following his direction the government stocked up on a lot of it?
