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The Formal Impeachment Inquiry of Trump

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by RESINator, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    You’ve admitted already that you’re trolling. Why object to people treating you like a troll?
     
    #2301 gifford1967, Dec 11, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    Rashmon, jiggyfly, superfob and 4 others like this.
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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  3. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Congressional Republicans are a reflection of their districts and frankly they are incompatible with the majority of Americans. There are two America’s and they are basically incompatible politically. And one wants it’s top party member to cheat to win. And it’s not the Democrats.
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  4. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    I miss Obama.
     
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  5. PatBev

    PatBev Member

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    National polls also said Hilary would win by a landslide but yet here we are

    Anyone who listens to political polls may actually be r****ded
     
    T_Man likes this.
  6. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    No they didn't say that about Hillary, at least close to the election, they didn't.
     
  7. PatBev

    PatBev Member

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    Dude you are delusional. I clearly remember election night every channel gave Trump around 1% chances of winning

    You can find endless sources of almost every news organization stating Hilary had over a 90% chance of winning the month before elections.

    Here’s one from CNN with 91%
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...arket-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/index.html

    HuffPost with 98%
    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_...jt--huLOdBEXxsYjQesWPTlEIHxM6RTGdmwhQj9UsGO04

    Washington Post less than 1% Trump
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...-winning-are-approaching-zero/?outputType=amp

    Every political website you google had Hilary with over 90% winning
     
  8. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I'm not delusional but I believe you have a misunderstanding of how the percentages work. That is likelihood of winning not by how much.
     
    #2308 FranchiseBlade, Dec 11, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    jiggyfly, JuanValdez and jcf like this.
  9. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Contributing Member

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  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Aha, making it official...

     
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  11. bingsha10

    bingsha10 Member

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  12. bingsha10

    bingsha10 Member

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    Because Hillary didn't rig the Democratic Primary against Bernie.
     
    dachuda86 and Realjad like this.
  13. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    lol
     
  14. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Hillary didn’t rig it. DNC favored her over Bernie. Hillary won the popular vote.

    I grit my teeth when the Republicans in Congress say that this impeachment is trying to overturn the will of 60 million voters when the person who got 2 million more votes lost.

    The Democrats didn’t force Trump to be a corrupt piece of ****. It’s just his nature, and we have known from the start who he was.

    Trump is being impeached because he withheld aid to Ukraine and asked for an investigation through Rudy et al, was outed, and then stonewalled the necessary Congressional investigation into the alleged corruption.
     
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    lol. you're doing the same thing
     
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    WSJ editorial this morning:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-incredible-shrinking-impeachment-11576109728?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

    The Incredible Shrinking Impeachment
    The Democratic grounds for ousting Trump are weak—and damaging to constitutional norms.
    By
    The Editorial Board
    Dec. 11, 2019 7:15 pm ET

    So that’s it? That’s all there is? After all the talk of obstruction of justice, collusion with Russia, bribery, extortion, profiting from the Presidency, and more, House Democrats have reduced their articles of impeachment against President Trump to two: abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. Honey, we shrunk the impeachment.

    Democrats on the Judiciary Committee will vote as early as Thursday on the text of the two articles they unveiled Tuesday, and then they will rush it to the floor next week. It’s enough to suspect that Democrats understand they are offering the weakest case for impeachment since Andrew Johnson, that the public isn’t convinced, and so they simply want to get it over with.

    ***
    At least Johnson was impeached for violating a specific statute, the Tenure of Office Act, by firing Edwin Stanton as Secretary of War. There was wide agreement that Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton violated criminal statutes. In this case Democrats don’t even try to allege a criminal act.

    Whatever happened to bribery and extortion? Democrats spent weeks talking them up as the crimes of Mr. Trump’s Ukraine interventions. They had turned to those words after focus groups with voters found them more compelling than “quid pro quo.” Yet suddenly they’re gone. Have Democrats concluded that Mr. Trump’s actions aren’t illegal under statutes that have specific meaning?

    Democrats have retreated instead to charge “abuse of power,” a phrase general enough for anything Congress wants to stuff into it. They don’t even pretend any more to prove a quid pro quo. Instead they assert that Mr. Trump, in his phone call with Ukraine’s president, “solicited the interference of a foreign government” in the 2020 election “in pursuit of personal political benefit.” They also assert that this “compromised the national security of the United States and undermined the integrity of the United States democratic process.”

    Their problem is that Mr. Trump didn’t withhold military aid to Ukraine, and even if he had he would have merely been returning to Barack Obama’s policy of denying lethal aid. How would that have jeopardized national security? Every President also solicits actions from foreign leaders that he hopes will help him politically at home.

    We don’t condone Mr. Trump’s mention of Joe Biden in his call to Ukraine’s President, which was far from perfect and reflects his often bad judgment. But “abuse of power” on this evidence is a new and low standard for impeachment that will come back to haunt future Presidents of all parties.

    As for corrupting the 2020 election, even if Ukraine had announced an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden, Mr. Trump couldn’t know how effective it would be, how long it would take, or whether it might even exonerate them. The election is still a year away. If the mere announcement of a foreign government’s investigation into corruption can poison a U.S. election, then American democracy must be weaker than even its enemies think.

    The second Democratic article is weaker in that it amounts to impeaching Mr. Trump because he is resisting their subpoenas. “Without lawful cause or excuse, President Trump directed Executive Branch agencies, offices and officials not to comply with those subpoenas,” the article charges.

    His lawful cause is defending his presidential powers under the Constitution. Every modern President has to some extent or another resisted Congressional or special-counsel subpoenas. Nixon and Mr. Clinton did until they lost at the Supreme Court. House Democrats are refusing even to fight in court, claiming impeachment gives them plenary power to see all documents and any witnesses they want.

    This ignores that the Constitution stipulates co-equal branches that each have the right to defend their powers. If Democrats are right in their claim, then every President essentially works for Congress. We should skip elections and let Congress choose the President.

    Democrats also claim the emergency of time, and as usual Rep. Adam Schiff puts this case in the least credible way. “The argument ‘why don’t you just wait?’ amounts to this: Why don’t you just let [Mr. Trump] cheat in one more election? Why not let him cheat just one more time?,” Mr. Schiff told the press as the articles were unveiled.

    But Mr. Trump didn’t cheat to win in 2016, as Robert Mueller’s Russia collusion investigation demonstrated after two years of looking. As for 2020, the Constitution includes no clause for pre-emptive impeachment to prevent acts that a President might commit.

    ***
    Democrats wrap these charges in high-toned rhetoric about “this solemn day” and quotes from Benjamin Franklin. But they are essentially impeaching Mr. Trump because they despise him and the way he governs.

    This is the classic standard of “maladministration,” which the Founders explicitly considered but excluded from the Constitution as grounds for impeachment. They did so because they feared that partisan Congresses would too easily impeach Presidents of the opposite political faction on this subjective basis, rather than for serious offenses.

    In their wisdom, the American people seem to have figured all this out. Despite one-sided lobbying by the impeachment press, the polls show that a majority opposes removing Mr. Trump from office. This may be the real explanation behind the Democratic move to shrink impeachment. Democrats now want a fast and furious vote to satisfy their most anti-Trump partisans, dump the mess on the Senate, and campaign on something else.

    They shouldn’t get off that easy. By defining impeachment down, they are turning what should be a rare and extraordinary constitutional remedy into a routine tool of partisan warfare. They are harming constitutional norms, as the liberals like to say.

    Americans will decide in 11 months whether Mr. Trump deserves to remain in office. But they should also keep the impeachment vote very much in mind when they decide whether Democrats deserve to keep the House.
     
  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    The depths trump-enabling republicans will go to defend trump from current and future abuses...

     
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  18. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Congressional Republicans are clowns.
     
    Rashmon likes this.
  19. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Isn't he still defending Epstein? Why on God's green earth would you wanna be associated with him?
     
  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    When the need to defend trump is so strong you will post any lie, no matter how easy to disprove...

     

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