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Harden vs Doncic: An Interesting Observation

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Spacemoth, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    That's one of those plays that a lot of players do, and it's been around a while, so I guess fans have just accepted it as a blessed foul-hunting technique.

    Harden is a foul-hunting innovator, pushing the envelope of what can be done within the rules to attract fouls. People dislike that. They think he's hacking the game, rather than playing the game. To me, it's one and the same. Playing the game means doing what you can, within the rules, to win.
     
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  2. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    The following comparison occurred to me just now:

    Playing-style-wise, Luka is to Harden as Kobe was to Jordan.

    Fight me.
     
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  3. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    West Conference Player of the Week: November
    Week ended - 11-4-19 - Anthony Davis (partial week)
    Week ended - 11-11-19 - James Harden
    Week ended - 11-18-19 - James Harden
    Week ended - 11-25-19 - Luka Doncic
    Week ended - 12-2-19 - James Harden err Carmelo Anthony (partial week)

    West Conference Player of the Month: November
    Luka Doncic

    Never change NBA, never change.
     
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  4. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    but the pupil is getting more respect than the master, and u hate to see it

    How does the pupil beat the sensei for POTM when the sensei had the better performance?
     
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  5. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Darth Harden and his disciple Darth Doncic

    Sith Lords come in pairs. A Master and A Student

    Rocket River
     
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  6. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    I believe that if Harden was being guarded the way Luka is, he’d be averaging over 40 right now without question, and if Luka was getting doubled all the time like Harden, he wouldn’t be averaging close to a 30 point triple double...so yes, they are comparable per 36, but that is with Harden facing far more defensive attention

    I really don’t see an argument for Luka over Harden...only Harden can average almost 40, but still lose POTM
     
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  7. Koperboy

    Koperboy Member

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    They play in different systems. Rockets' offense is ISO-heavy, while Luka's offense is PnR heavy. It's very different to a casual viewer.
     
  8. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    Harden was still hated when his offense was PnR heavy
     
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  9. Sanctity

    Sanctity Member

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    Isn't Luka built like a big tank guard as well?
     
  10. ThatboyPhuong

    ThatboyPhuong Member

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    Do you remember MDA’s first year with the rockets? When Harden avg about 11 assist?
     
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  11. Koperboy

    Koperboy Member

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    That's because those days were the full-on flopping/hunting for fouls. He cleaned that up a lot over the last few years.
     
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  12. Koperboy

    Koperboy Member

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    Yes I do, but Doncic didn't play at that time. Harden from that year resembles Luka more than he does now.
     
  13. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    Code:
            Luka    Harden
    Games   14        15
    PTS     32.4    39.5
    RBS     10.3    6.4
    ASTS    10.4    7.6
    STLS    1.2     1.9
    BLKS    0.2     0.5
    TOVs    4.6     5.1
    FG%     .493    .464
    3P%     .336    .389
    FT%     .840    .837
    TS%     .639    .653
    ORtg    126     124
    DRtg    107     106
    +/-     +10.3   +11.9
    Record  9-5     10-5
    
     
  14. Sanctity

    Sanctity Member

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    Luka is more like a healthy Brandon Roy..
     
  15. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    blond hair blue eyes sell more jerseys
     
  16. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    You mean "casual viewers" who didn't watch Harden in MDA's first year.

    It is nearly identical to MDA's first year here ... either PnR or PnPop with Ryan Anderson/Ariza. And Pistol and Thru Series. With equal ISO to what Luka runs now. Leading to >50% Ast% and 11.2 lead league in assists Then after that, Rockets added two HOF PGs to the team. So execution has changed somewhat. (And remarkable aside, in Paul's first year here, Harden still produced 45% Ast% with CP3 over 40, as well. I think that is the first time two PGs on the same team reached that level.)

    This is the beauty of the NBA. NBA defenses adjusted to that 55-win MDA/Nash/Harden offense, started doing heavy traps/double of the PnR or ICE drops -- the latter having the goal of taking Capela out of the play. And after 2+ seasons, Harden's response (CP3's, as well, mind you), was to use picks to seek mismatches and go ISO.

    Due to Harden's superior handles and driving ability, MDA allowed the evolution for Harden to ISO more, and Harden greatly improved his step-back 3 to retain answers to NBA defense "zoning" the drives. Capela moved to the short corner, slam position.

    And now with doubles at half-court, and an elite driver in WB, Harden's showing willingness to passively give up the ball early (for hockey assists), yet still score so much.

    So, the beauty of the NBA is we will get to see Luka face various schemes, too. Kid is amazing, but I'm also excited to see how he responds to increased scheming like Harden has. A 7'3 PnPop partner helps a lot. And Luka's height helps his drives and step-backs, too. But the NBA probably will get that ball out of his hands. They certainly have a lot of game film on Harden to pull from.
     
    #96 heypartner, Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  17. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    so then the day should come where Luka receives hate for his foul hunting...something tells me that won’t happen tho...he’ll be called skilled and crafty while being praised for his BBIQ
     
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  18. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    fwiw: the award is for Oct *and* November, combined. Harden's efficiency takes a hit on first 3 games, but he adds that stellar 59pt game that started his roll.
     
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  19. omgTHEpotential

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    How?
     
  20. Koperboy

    Koperboy Member

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    Luka was heavily booed against Pelicans after he intentionally bunmped into flying Hart and got three FTs.
     

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