2019 Hong Kong Protest

Seems like a PRC shill... which is... interesting... didn't think I'd ever encounter one of those on the internetz.

 

that amounts to your concession on losing the debate on HK

 

Ok, I lost.

 

actually, having lived there for 3 yrs working as an American expat, i am just more informed on HK, as compared to you

 

You are a legend in your own mind.

 

I haven't had time to read through the thread but here are some of my quick thoughts. This situation has been building up for awhile and it all goes to the PRC not completely honoring the terms of the treaty that returned HK. It was clear from the early years following the return that the PRC wasn't going to give HK true autonomy and has been limiting HK's ability to self-government. One of the beliefs behind the principle of "One Country Two Systems" was that eventually the PRC would move closer towards openness and democracy so by the time that HK would be integrated into the PRC things in the PRC would be closer to HK. That isn't the case and the PRC has been moving further away from democracy to greater authoritarian rule especially under Xi. It isn't in the interest of Xi and the CCP to have HK able to operate autonomously as it could help fuel restiveness in other parts of China. As we see with what's going on in Xinjiang the current regime is more than willing to assert it's authority even over places that technically are supposed to have more autonomy from Beijing.

So far though Beijing has shown a high level of restraint and I suspect much of that restraint has to do that unlike Xinjiang HK is one of the most famous and cosmopolitan cities in the World and the PRC can't move on it without the attracting global attention and outrage. Also doing severe damage to the PRC economy. Further with the trade war, troubles with neighbors and other issues with rivals the PRC understands that impressions are important. A crackdown by Beijing especially one that looks like Tiananmen will give global opponents a propaganda victory. That said I don't know how long their patience will last and given that the protesters in HK are showing no signs of relenting I fear that things might get very bad in the near future.

 

The "protesters" began to set fire in the airport and the airport was shutdown completely. With this pace, the crackdown will come within days. Hongkong cannot afford to this terrorism crap. China will do anything to protect 7 million people in that city, the global attention, outrage or even the economy is nothing compared with the safety of their own people. I think that's the only right thing to do.

 

according to my old acquaintance in HK, who works at the Hang Seng Stock Exchange,

The movements in Shenzhen have little to do with HK. It looks like Beijing will just let HKers
mess things up themselves. Any intervention will come in 2047. which kinda echo this comment by judoka

we'll see

 

The extradition bill was not created by the CCP. Originally it came up because a Hong Kong guy took his girlfriend to Taiwan and murdered her there. Because HK doesn't have an extradition agreement with Taiwan (or Macau, or China either), the murderer is living in HK without fear of getting arrested, because he can't legally be sent to Taiwan to face justice. For practical reasons, HK should have extradition agreements so fugitives can't just flee to HK and hide out there. That being said, the HK govt tried to pass the extradition bill without much transparency and it became news, and naturally many HK people freaked out and that was the initial start to the protests. Whether there were hidden objectives in how the extradition bill was initially handled or if the HK govt was just sloppy at communicating the bill is up for debate. Many HK people came out and protested by marching in the streets, and the HK govt eventually withdrew the bill.

After that, the protests escalated well beyond the initial peaceful marches, where you see violence from both sides (police and protesters) and unfortunately there does seem to be an antifa-like contingent that I personally feel prevents the peaceful protesters from making progress. I personally don't see much progress coming from these protests. They have no leader and some of their demands are not realistic. I could be wrong but I feel they lack the majority support (despite what you see on CNN, not all people in HK currently support the protests). I think the best scenario is the protests peacefully wind down, Carrie Lam is replaced by a competent leader, and the real estate tycoons are reigned in so that more affordable housing can be built (the cost of housing is insane in HK and a big source of frustration for many).

 

triad members, following orders from triad bosses, roughing up the protesters.

 

That's one element for sure. You don't pay protection money to have protesters scaring away all the business.

 

The Chinese are going to destroy Hong Kong as it is today. The wealthy have already begun moving their assets and their families out of Hong Kong.

As well they should.

 

With all due respect, couldn't you do a better job of repeating the PRC/Xi's propaganda? The extradition treaty's language clearly said that the PRC would be able to extradite anyone they wished from Hong Kong to the mainland, to be tried in their courts. Just so those not informed will get an idea as to why this would totally freak out the residents, the courts in the PRC have something like a 99.9% conviction rate. That number is not "made up."

The current government of Hong Kong is heavily influenced by China and that government attempted to sneak through the extradition treaty without letting the general public know the language. Heretofore, Beijing had kidnapped the occasional Hong Kong citizen and spirited them across the border to China, but otherwise the local judicial system was largely out of China's control. This treaty would have easily allowed China to bring Hong Kong citizens to China for trial for pretty much anything, including peaceful protest. That treaty hasn't been tossed into the rubbish bin, part of why the protests continue.

China has never conformed to the 1997 treaty with Great Britain governing Hong Kong for the next 50 years. After Britain handed over their Crown Colony back to China, free elections were guaranteed. That hasn't happened. The government of Hong Kong isn't freely elected, and is increasingly packed with members hand picked by Beijing. It's resembles more closely an exclusive club and Beijing decides who can belong.

It appears to me that the increasingly hysterical language coming from China's state controlled media is attempting to do several things. It's demonizing the protesters, now attempting to portray them as "terrorists." The coverage from China gives the impression that the brave police are battling the terrible protesters, bent on creating chaos, when in fact, the continued protests are now driven almost as much by police brutality as they are by the treaty not being completely withdrawn.

Also coming from Chinese media is the increasing accusation that the US and the UK are behind the protests. I find those accusations ludicrous, because it is not in the interests of the UK or the US to have Hong Kong's status changed. Both countries do an enormous amount of business there, with huge investments, while Hong Kong being completely taken over by Beijing would do enormous damage to the Chinese economy and China's perception and prestige around the world. In other words, it would be a huge blow to China, yet not anything the US and the UK would want to see happen.

Something else is going on, in my opinion. I think some of the more disruptive and violent acts by protesters are actually being encouraged by agents of China's intelligence service. A couple of caches of explosives have been "discovered" by Hong Kong police. I think those were planted to give "credence" to the idea that the protesters are now "terrorists." That the protesters are being set up for a brutal crackdown is increasingly worrisome. I hope that doesn't occur, but given the increasingly jingoistic actions of the Xi government, it is definitely, in my opinion, a possibility. If the treaty were fully withdrawn, the police quit firing rubber bullets and tear gas at the demonstrators, who have frequently numbered in the hundreds of thousands, if the current head of the Hong Kong government resigned, and actual local elections allowed to take place, I think the demonstrations would quickly come to an end.

Just in case anyone is wondering, I've visited Hong Kong. Because of that, I developed an interest in the place. As a result, I read several sources for news of what happens there, as I do with anything that interests me. It's my ardent wish that this is resolved peacefully. It is in the best interests of all involved, in my opinion.

 

stop publicizing ur ignorance.

since the handover, HK has become

• the king of logistics for the PRC
• the de facto fashion capital of the PRC
• its Hang Seng stock exchange has become the king of IPO for chinese companies.
  • it has become the first cross-border exchange for stock / currency trading
  • it has played in pivotal role in expediting China's admission to the IMF

• the profits from the above have afforded HK to build
  • one of the most modern airport in the word, built on a man-made island
  • bridges, highways connecting to its mainland neighbors in the Greater Pearl River Delta region

there is way too much inter-dependency. China may be many things, stupid it is not. it is not about to kill off HK

stop publicizing ur ignorance.

those HKers w connections, and want to leave, had already done so since the 1980s, almost 2 generations ago

out of this segment, most of them have immigrated to Canada, Vancouver and Toronto;
some to either Australia, UK, or the US

eg. Li Kai Shi, the shipping magnate, a billionaire many times over, had become a Canadian citizen since the 1980s,
altho his businesses are still based in HK and China. and he continues to live in HK​

 

Your perspective is quite valuable! Would be super helpful if you could not be defensive and trying to show up other posters in perceived BBS conflict. Please share more of your perspective on HK itself. The fights w other folks here is super boring though.

 

Great post. Very well said. Right on.

 

It is time for anyone or any company in Hong Kong who values their freedom and has the financial ability to get out, to do that.

In free countries, they build walls to keep people out. In communist (now actually fascist) countries, like China, they need walls to keep people from leaving.