Would you trade our personnel minus Harden for Raptors personnel minus Kawhi and Lin?

Spot on.

The apologists call this hating.

We’re long time fans and board members. This is hating. It’s just reality. If the roster isn’t strong enough... after 12 years, thats on the GM. If the system isn’t good enough and the guy who is the system wont adapt, thats on him. If the coaching isn’t good enough, thats on the coach.

This isn’t complicated.

 

Agreed.

Funny thing is they are all to blame - Harden, Morey and MDA

Yet apologists absolve Harden of all blame and when you point at Morey, they still come up with other excuses for his 10+ years of being also-rans

 

A big part of the Raptors success is their defense. As a group they are all great defenders and are well connected. The last Rockets season with Ariza/Moute the Rockets were really good defensively. The Raptors length in the front court is key.

Also, we have to acknowledge coach Nick Nurse. He makes adjustments. He allowed Siakam to play through mistakes in the regular season to help grow his game. MDA could stand to take some cues from Nurse in that regard.

 

They're better at every position except Gordon over their 2 guards.

 

I mean the issue with out team is our lack of height at SF already. We dont fix that by not getting the SF of the Raps.


But for these playoffs does Raptors have a better 2-8? Not sure but its close.
Paul > Siakham
Gordon < Lowry
Capela < Gasol
Tucker > Green
Rivers Nene Shumpert House < Ibaka VanVleet Anunoby Powell


Also Raptors defence is amazing. And have no weak links. We have Harden on the defensive end. Not that we aren't lucky to have him.

 

The problem is James Harden.

There needs to be a drastic shift in his play style.

 

Great question, for whatever reason it seems to have drawn a lot of reasonable takes compared to other threads. Too bad The Warriors are hobbled, because it’s hard to not have our perspectives shaded by the outcomes of these playoffs. Will be epic to re-read this thread if the Warriors come back. To be clear, I don’t expect that to happen.

Isn’t an x-factor whether our offense would be run the same way post-trade? I tend to think the trade would be good either way, but *hopefully* the ball would move slightly more with the addition of better shooting and ballhandling. I’m not as down of the offense as a lot of ppl on this board-don’t want it to be overhauled, but I think more crunch-time variety would be good, and getting everyone else involved would help their concentration and rhythm.

That said, the main reason why I would do the trade is the increased athleticism and length on defense/rebounding.

Final point-really interesting to see how divergent everyone’s views are on Lowry-Cp3. It seems clear Lowry has outplayed Cp3 these playoffs, which is shocking to me.

 

I still don’t follow this logic...

After 12 years? You have the power of hindsight. Just go back I don’t know. 3-4 years. Break me down the moves that would have undoubtably made us better than the Warriors. I won’t even come back with the “you don’t know if the other team would make that trade”. I just want a realistic within the cap rules layout of what should have been done and then see that roster on paper.

And as an aside. Do you believe we were good enough all around in 17/18? Roster, star and coach? What in your mind was the biggest reason we lost?

Because again, No ones roster has been strong enough when Golden State has been healthy.

The system and the player are fine. Unless you are trying to beat a team clearly better than you. Because again, no ones system or top player has been good enough to take them down when fully healthy.

Personally I think Mike has been pretty damn good. Though coaching is an aspect of the game that I don’t think many people can realistically grade fairly by just what we see in games and hear in stupid sideline quotes. Maybe he really is as dumb and stubborn as a lot of posters believe he is when it comes to coaching. I don’t know.

 

Spoiler

re: KL/CP

 

Not that it wasn't EXTREMELY obvious, but its telling that Austin, an integral team member is saying this.

Of course there will be internet coaches here talking about why they know more than him, while he was o nthe court.

 

Some of us are really soft tigers, it is just soft criticism, Morey would have been fired in LA after 2-3 yrs.

 

The clippers took the warriors to 6 games

 

Well, the Raptors almost lost 2 games against the Magic...

 

Golden State is about to be 3-2 in Finals. Apparently not unbeatable. But in either case... 12 years is 12 years. If DM was told “hey, this is hard, get us close and you’re good”... then I guess he’s good. My directive as an owner would be “win a ring”. How long should he get if that’s the directive?

As for actual moves 3-4 years ago. There’s enough misses now to lay out a pattern. Be it Morris over Kawhi. Be it not moving Dwight early enough. Be it constantly having to trade picks to get out from contracts. Be it the disastrous offseason this last year.

Even the CP3 move is turning out to be a failure.i certainly understand the what ifs. But I can only judge reality. He’s hurt more than not, and wasn’t hurt in the exact moment you needed him, and now is older, declining and on an immovable contract.

Multiple things that seem contradictory can be true. I can believe DM is a REALLY GOOD general manager that would be hard to replace while also saying ultimately he’s failed to complete the roster.

If I had to point to one thing though it certainly would be the reliance on analytics and chess pieces ahead of any strategic thought as to the changing of the nature of the game.

But that’s just my two cents. I am not getting paid to run the team.

 

If we have failed wtf has every other team been doing why Golden State is in their 5th straight finals it makes no sense. Cleveland only won in 16 with the Draymond suspension and the bogut injury along with you know KYRIE.

 

I never said they failed. But I think that overestimates how good they are. The warriors have been on the brink practically every year.

 

I've changed my tune on Morey this year. I don't think he's necessarily a hack but I do think he had a few hits in the early years (Rafer for Lowry, Brooks for Dragic and obviously Harden) and is now mostly kicking dirt to find the magic again.

I used to see him as a top GM in the NBA, I see him as a very competent GM in a league with increased improvements in the front offices. He's part of a very talented pack versus one of the leaders. Maybe the Harden trade was just too good and it hurt his future success but we have thrown away too many picks. We are a team built to compete in the now, but the team doesn't even have a second star next to Harden. We are $20 million + over the cap, we have no picks and we have no young guys with real upside like Oubre, Siakim or Jaylen Brown.

We had James Harden at age 22. The most exciting team (future and present) was probably his first year. Young guys like Parsons with potential and Morey spent the next 5/6 off-seasons Star Gazing.

I hope Morey catches lightning this offseason and makes a move that isn't obvious that makes us all feel young again.