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Grade James Harden's 1st Round Performance

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by cheke64, Apr 25, 2019.

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Grade James Harden's overall performance against the Jazz.

  1. A

    37 vote(s)
    10.4%
  2. B

    198 vote(s)
    55.8%
  3. c

    104 vote(s)
    29.3%
  4. D

    16 vote(s)
    4.5%
  1. harold bingo

    harold bingo Udoka Only Fan
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    I think it's safe to assume he was practicing a lot of midrange back when he was shooting 200-300 of them per season, it used to be his bread and butter. Even then he hovered around the 40% mark.
     
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  2. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Just about every website who talks basketball has come out with an article on how to stop James Harden. Countless people have posed the question, “is he the best offensive player ever?” Or at least best offensive player of this generation? With most answering...YES!

    And here you are describing him as two dimensional player with no variation.

    I mean I know you have been one of the chief complainers of Harden for several years now. But at some point you have to step back and ask yourself is my bias stopping me from seeing reality?

    With the way the Jazz played Harden he did NOT have access to an unlimited buffet of wide open mid range jumpers. And in no reality is his mid range shooting better than his floater %. Taking it all the way to the paint negates the defender behind him and collapses the defense for kick outs.
     
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  3. smp

    smp Member

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    This mid range debate will never end. Lol. As of now, the most dominant teams of the decade used it. The Warriors used it. The Spurs used it. The Cavs used it.

    The Rockets and Bucks have full on sold out of the mid range system. So far no championships to show for it but it has only been implemented at this level for the past 4 years or so. We will see if this year is any different.
     
  4. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Contributing Member

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    Its a B -- he had some poor offensive performances (for him), but you have to acknowledge the Jazz and their defense for making it as hard as it can be for him to score and be comfortable. He did do a lot of other things and played good consistent defense in the series. In years past if he was taken out of his game offensively it would effect all facets of his game that did not happen this year.
     
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  5. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    "don't get it twisted" - CP3
     
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  6. cur.ve

    cur.ve Contributing Member

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    He actually does well on post ups and that little midrange fade away...
     
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  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I would give James a B+ if I’d had that option. He faced arguably the best defense in the league, and certainly the best defensive center in Rudy Gobert, who had a great series. As @Clutch and MK Bower talked about in Clutch’s new podcast (everyone should give it a listen - it’s excellent), however, Harden had some inexplicable moments at times during the series, including last night. Moments when he seemed more of a watcher than a doer. That shouldn’t happen, and certainly shouldn’t happen going forward.

    The next series, whoever we play, won’t get any easier. While we are unlikely to face a better defensive team, at least until the Finals, our next series is going to have a more balanced opponent, excellent at both ends. Better offensively than Utah, for sure. If we make it past Oakland or LA, the next series just might be less of a challenge. That’s kind of weird to say, I guess, but it’s how I see it. Facing Oakland or LA will be a war. No doubt about that, and we need James at the top of his game. When he plays at that level, there’s not a better player in the league, not in my opinion. That player has to show up and be consistent. It’s of paramount importance. How Harden goes, so go the Rockets.
     
    #187 Deckard, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
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  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    So?

    Is Steph Curry the second best one-on-one player in the league? Is he the second best at blowing by his defender and getting to the basket? No, he isn't. Neither is Durant or Thompson.

    Durant can create for himself, but even that is somewhat stymied in the system Golden State runs. Their system is all about getting people open shots, and it works for them because they have all time great shooters.

    The Warriors system fits the strengths of their roster...... same for the Rockets and Bucks.
     
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  9. Wylo

    Wylo Member

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    The best offensive player ever does not post 22.3 PER and 53 TS% in the playoffs.

    Those articles discussing how to stop Harden just points to the fact that many people think there are actually legitimate ways to stop him.

    On the other hand, what are you going to say about Shaq, Giannis, or Wilt? Foul them. That's it. Otherwise there is no answer.

    With Harden, many teams can be clever and employ various strategies to limit his effectiveness on the court, and few of them have proven to be very effective. So those long form articles don't prove that Harden's offense is unstoppable - it actually proves the opposite.
     
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  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    So we have gone through the "the ball is sticky" era and not are in the "need more mid range shots" era........
     
  11. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    This is actually a good point.
     
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Do you think your bias is preventing you from seeing reality? Do you think 6 straight playoff appearances where he SIGNIFICANTLY drops in scoring efficiency is not a red flag to you?

    I was really exited this season for Harden's 36 ppg regular season performance. It had me amazed. But then he goes into the playoffs and it's the same exact story of Harden becoming an inefficient chucker in the playoffs.

    I'm going to be blunt. If Harden doesn't show up this second round in a decently efficient series scoring 30 ppg which I assume "the greatest offensive player ever" should be more than capable of doing, I'm not going to give two ****s about his future regular season performances. I'm not going to give a **** about him being 1st or 2nd place in MVP voting during the regular season. It just won't excite me anymore because I understand what is going to happen as soon as the playoffs start.
     
    #192 fchowd0311, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
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  13. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    You think someone can better lead the rockets? Like sweep the jazz 4-0? Who?
     
  14. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    What was his Percentage of floaters this playoffs, like 20 percent? Lol

    What was his overall field goal percentage this playoffs.
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Curry is elite at putting the ball on the floor. You are confusing "deficiencies" with "variety". Curry does not have a deficiency at putting the ball on the floor and same with KD. Steph and Durant aren't more reliant on isos because they are also elite at other parts of an offense.
     
  16. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Wylo and fchow with their typical Harden hate and bile. Why am I not surprised?
     
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  17. Tfor3

    Tfor3 Member

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    I rated him an A bc we advanced, but he's really closer to B+
     
  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Shaq and Wilt played in an era where defenses were far more restricted in what they could do and teams did various things to attempt to limit them over the years.

    Giannis is not on the same level as James Harden offensively. Having said that, there already is a book on trying to limit his effectiveness, which is forcing him to shoot from the outside.

    FWIW teams tried to slow down Jordan with junk defensive strategies (this was when defenses were limited as well). The Pistons for example came up with ways to slow down Jordan or become physical with him and force him outside.

    James Harden averaged 36 points this season, the highest in 35 years and the second highest in over 55 years. Over the last 5 seasons James Harden has averaged 30 points a game and has won an MVP and finished 2nd three times.

    There has not really been any great book on how to stop James Harden... the only solution has been to deploy multiple defenders on him, and design an entire defensive scheme to slow him down.... the result was a very good team losing the series 4-1.

    If you tell a defensive coach to slow down one player, at all costs, in the modern NBA.... they can do it.... but the cost is incredibly high... so how realistic is it?
     
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  19. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    4-1 vs 1st and defense and 5th seed in the west with no other all alstars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3-2 vs 6th seed being 1st seed and defending champs with 1 superstar/2 time finals mvp + 2 all stars
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The strategy wasn't to double harden all game(they did very occasionally) but to literally play Harden from behind. That isn't "concentrating all your defense on Harden". It's essentially the same thing as sagging off Giannis or Ben Simmons because team defenses know they aren't going to score consistently from outside the paint.

    I don't see how you see what the Jazz did as any different than what a team defense would want to do on Simmons and Giannis which is give them the spots they don't score from.
     
    Wylo likes this.

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