[OFFICIAL] Bernie Sanders for President thread

I think we largely agree. But, my 3500 hours example was not made up. I am dealing with that thinking right now. So, while every generation may have felt similarly, I fear that the advent of 24/7 entertainment in terms of technology that allows for addicting games, constant access to movies and tv and isolating communication may make this generation different.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

Do you genuinely think someone can be worth 40× more in labor through pure salary? I'm not speaking of capital gains dude. If you design an addictive app and can sell it for 40 million dollars, that is your work and you deserve a low capital gains tax rate.

But salary? You genuinely believe a CEO does 40× the labor as high skilled professionals in that same company?

 

First of all, most CEO's get their huge paydays off of restricted stock grants, options and the like. Not salary. While some CEO's take large salaries, most make up a large percentage of their compensation on these other things that are supposed to be aligned with the company's interest (and provides tax benefits). Look it up.

But, if we took your statement as accurate, I would still say yes. A truly excellent CEO is going to be worth way more than some professional down the ranks. Sorry.

There are crap CEO's who get golden parachutes and walk with a windfall. No doubt.

But you can repeat it over and over, I will continue to tell you that an excellent CEO is far more valuable that an engineer unless that engineer is likewise so good that he/she deserves to rise to the top. In which case, that engineer should be WELL compensated by the company to stay or should leave and do his/her own thing.

But, sorry, competent engineers are not rare. Genius engineers/scientists are and should be paid as such. But yes, I would rather have a really good CEO than a really good engineer, because it is easier to find the latter.

 

40x the worth?

And a "great engineer" if he or she is great at engineering design would be misplaced rising the ranks at a corporate executive position managing assets and having hardly anything to do with actual research and development of the product his company sells.

I'm not even making close to a claim that CEOs deserve equal to less pay as the salaried workers under him or her. Your argument would make some sense if that was even close to the claim I'm making.

They can keep their 5 million dollar salaries. I just want the top two marginal income brackets at a higher rate.

 

A really "great engineer" who can innovate has the opportunity to get private equity money behind him/her and do his/her own thing even if they need help in the mechanics of running a company.

I am not ignoring you, but I need to get to bed. So, I'm signing off. Peace.

 

This is where being born into wealth and being a trust fund baby really helps.

You also have to understand the context of a engineer or software developer who was born into a typical middle class family. They have to worry about student loan debt, they have to pay for housing, commuting etc. Is the opportunity cost if you have a novel idea worth the risk of probably not earning enough to provide for you the next ten years when you are already struggling to pay off debt? What if your idea doesn't attract enough venture capitalists to fund you? So what? most investments have a negative cash flow for the first few years of a project. They only become profitable 5-10 years down the line. Do you think your typical engineer born into no wealth can afford that? Now you wasted a decade of your life not only screwing you over with your current debt but also ****ing you over in terms of not adding to your 401K so now you are more ****ed when you have to consider retirement down the future. Thus, the comfort of having a 100 grand salary and the financial security that it entails is worth it to the vast majority of high skilled professionals who don't have significant capital to invest in

 

The rich can't cover the costs the socialists want. According to Forbes if you combine all the money of the billionaires in this country it is around 2.75 trillion. If you take every penny from them you pay for medicare for all for one year.

They always say just tax the "rich." That's not how it is in the "utopias" like the UK. The top tax bracket is 45% in the UK. That's only 8% higher than the top bracket in the US. They still have a low capital gains rate with a top rate of 20% except they have a 28% bracket for residential property gains over $50k. The real zinger in the UK is for the bracket equal to $50,000 up to $160,000. In the US we have 2 brackets in that range. 22% on income from 38k to 82k. Then 24% on income from 82k to 158k. In the UK.... they have one bracket from 50k to 160k. It's 40%. Then ANY income over $160k is taxed at 45%. So you aren't really soaking the rich. It's the middle class and upper middle class that gets hammered. The rich guy gets taxed just like any one else's income over 160k.

One of the companies I work with has some UK investors. They were asking about potential future tax rates. When I showed them that Bernie wants to charge people the same rate on capital gains as income on anything over 250k and up to 54% on anything over 10 million... he said without hesitation he is selling everything he has right after the election if Bernie wins. He will pay the 20% under the current rules and put his money elsewhere in the world. In 2017 foreigners owned 20% of the US stock market and 43% of the US bond market. It will be interesting. I do not believe the proposed rates from Sanders are a good idea. We can't have taxes that much higher than our competitors like the UK. You will chase investment out of our country. You can't stop them from taking their money either. The election is in November 2020 and the Trump tax rates will apply until 2022.

 

Last post for the night: I was not born into wealth. Never had a trust fund. (also, never was a genius engineer which kind of hurts).

But, you are pointing out the difference between some who really succeed wildly vs doing well (nothing wrong with that).

There are some individuals who are simply wired differently and will take the risks, make the sacrifices and defy the odds. Not all of our best and brightest make it even if they are wired to risk it all. It takes luck, opportunity etc.

What it doesn't take (but admittedly doesn't hurt) is family wealth or connections.

It may feel better to think that, and you may be making the responsible and smart play, but somewhere there are others born into "middle class" -- not even poverty -- who are risking it all for their goals. That is just reality and how we are all wired differently.

That is no criticism of your position. You are taking a smart, cautious view of things. But, others choose differently. Some flame out; some succeed.

 

I doubt this video will change your mind but maybe you can understand their reasoning.

 

I'm sorry but I don't see how being born into wealth has no effect how much risk someone is willing to take. If someone is born into 20 million dollars, risking 1 million dollars in an investment is far less risky than someone who inherited 2 million and wants the invest the same amount.

How much your were born into has a large part in how much risk one is willing to take.

I would also suggest trying to stop taking my statements about macro claims as personal statements about you. I never remotely implied you aren't self made.

 

Those tax rates chase foreign money out of this country. That will be the reality. Also, rich people will be running for other countries and will get out before new tax laws apply. They can buy their way into other countries and renounce their citizenship here. They have to pay a capial gains tax on ALL of their assets to get out. However, they will have that money back in 4-5 years with a 6-7% return on their portfolio. If they go somewhere like Singapore they pay ZERO capital gains tax. Once the writing is on the wall other countries will open up the gates and change the laws to bring the wealthy to their country. Countries like Macedonia already do it. You can have a passport and be a citizen in 6 months.

This is a load of garbage. My parents weren't wealthy. My brother worked his tail off from being a low level accountant, got his MBA while working, changed companies a few times when new opportunities came up, and he is on the executive floor of one of the largest private companies in his industry. He is in business development and flies around on private jets making billion dollar deals. He has private equity THROWING billions at him as we speak. He is closing a deal very soon. He has to basically pick which equity group's money he wants to use. He's in the Lexus lounge on a regular basis mucking it up with the uber elite of Houston.

 

We are talking past each other. Starting with a lot of money is obviously an advantage. It is not a requirement.

But, in any event, if you put yourself through school, are about to finish grad school and are primed to make a 100+k/year salary, you are killing it

 

Agreed, but lol Are you kidding me? That is all the Dems have done for years and it has resulted in many folks without health insurance, making less than $15/hr, unable to send their kids to college, saying their is no difference between the parties. So why vote at all or maybe for the Orange Buffoon who says MAGA and they think: he is a crazy p***y grabber who always cheats his employees, but maybe he will blow things up, be different and help me".

Besides we just had the agreeable well mannered Obama, who had the self awareness to refer to himself one time as a "Eisenhauer Republican" ; and we have seen the Repubs, including the usual suspects on this bbs, call him a Marxist communist socialist.

From personal experience for many years I have told many people in Houston I am a socialist and quite a few have said: "I figured that "since they about all they knew about me was I had a bumpersticker or a yard sign for a Democrat and Fox and Friends have told them for years all the mild mannered Dems are socialists.

 

Hey I agree with Nook totally on this one.

 

Yeah, the Nordics still ponder the meaning of life and as someone who lived in the frigid northern midwest for years, trudging or even driving to work in the dark and cold is a real pain.
I think it is common sense, as well as proven by social science research iirc from college, that taking some of the economic pressure off folks tends to make them calmer and leads to less family violence, mental health problems, crimes etc.

 

Good post. I will need to see the rest of thw video, though there have many such plans, largely unknown to most folks that describe how to pay for "good things" for the average American. Murdoch who controls Fox News and the very rich CEO's of the mainstream networks, who are trying to please major shareholders,including the billionaires, are not asking how do we pay in good faith. However, I think another approach is: "Please explain how since we are the richest country in the world, how come we cannot afford national healthcare, free 4 year college and apprenticeships etc."

 

If it was not for Bernie Sanders we would still be stuck in vagueness of talking about "rising all boats" or "There is not a Blue America or a Red America; just one America" or raising minimum wages from $7.25/hr to $9, some more Pell Grants to fill out large applications for , etc. which is not exactly a battle cry to rally lower income Americans to rouse themselves to vote or become civically engaged.

 

Good News polling shows Bernie leading Kamala Harris 2 to 1 among African America Voters !!
https://theintercept.com/2019/03/06/bernie-sanders-black-voters-2020/