I don’t know how much you make and it isn’t my business. I will just say very few wealthy or rich people think they are actually rich or well off. My wife falls into this trap. I will be taxed more too. I do not mind paying more (within reason) if it is for a strong social good. Also yes, if you or someone else is making twice what they make, but don’t want to pay more in taxes, then you are viewed as greedy. It is all a matter of perspective.
They already pay more in taxes unless they have offsetting losses. Our system is very progressive. Income taxes are paid by the most productive. Sales taxes and certain employment taxes are regressive, but the ones that snare high income producers are progressive. I love when people who pay zero in income taxes and may actually be getting a check from the government complain about the gov't "giving" high earners money when they are simply grabbing a small percentage less of it. I'm not sure when our society moved from each working to support himself/herself with a safety net for those who can't work or temporarily (key) find themselves unable to do so, to a society where people believe they have an absolute right to the rewards of other individuals' work or investment.
Do you think a CEO earning in the top marginal bracket with a salary around 10 million does 40 times the labor than an engineering project manager working underneath him at 250 grand?
I think depending on the CEO and the engineer, the CEO may be bringing at least that multiple of value to the company. If the engineer is truly good, he can advance within the company or find other more rewarding experiences. If the engineer is a fairly pedestrian represtentative of his profession, I can't really fairly compare it to someone who advanced to CEO. Your hypothetical is impossible to answer given the lack of information.
Are you assuming a perfect merit based system where "knowing the right people" has zero role to play between being a engineering project manager and being the cheif executive? Do you think that salary is accurate placed based in merit or based in the CEO and shareholders arbitrarly inflating their salary? This is why I'm okay with high marginal income tax rates for the top two brackets while having lower tax rates for capital gains. In terms of salary, once you reach the top two brackets over 1 million dollars, the less of it is actually earned and instead is just inflated.
From your recent posts, I discern a thread of "I have a large educational debt. I want the best tv; I want a new truck; I want to do an IPO; and I want a house." I hope you resolve the debt and get all you want. But, if you think your posts demonstrate some form of social consciousness that is superior to other capitalists (because that is what you appear to be), they don't at least to me. You seem, like most people, consumed by your own financial position and espouse positions based on what may benefit YOU the most. Welcome to the human race. I truly hope you excel at your profession and pay off your student debt. But, you chose your path, and if you are an excellent engineer you should be fine. If you aren't, figure out something that suits you better. But quit projecting your anger on others.
From your recent posts, I discern a thread of "I have a large educational debt. I want the best tv; I want a new truck; I want to do an IPO; and I want a house." I hope you resolve the debt and get all you want. But, if you think your posts demonstrate some form of social consciousness that is superior to other capitalists (because that is what you appear to be), they don't at least to me. You seem, like most people, consumed by your own financial position and espouse positions based on what may benefit YOU the most. Welcome to the human race. I truly hope you excel at your profession and pay off your student debt. But, you chose your path, and if you are an excellent engineer you should be fine. If you aren't, figure out something that suits you better. But quit projecting your anger on others
This isn’t really a change... through out US history there has been tension between the haves and the have nots and it is more profound when you have an even larger gap. Income tax isn’t necessarily paid by the most productive, it is paid by who makes the most (to a point). A lot of people have believed and still do believe that you take from the rich to support the poor and in some cases the masses. I am going to be hard pressed to find many people feeling bad that my taxes go up 10-20% if I am making $200,000 or more a year when a lot of the country is making $40,000 a year. It is just human nature. I can point out that my obligations or bills are higher, but the reality is that the millennial working at Whole Foods, or the Gen Xer that works at a call center is going to claim they deserve to have healthcare or safe schools.
I think you are already making excuses for not suceeding in the way you want. Whether any of your statements above are true or not, they are all capable of being overcome. Look around. If you are falling behind, and others are succeeding, figure out why and emulate them.
Stop getting personal. Do you genuinely think there is any reasonable scenario where someone working in the same company deserves to earn 40x the salary as another individual. I'm not reffering to capital gains from stock shares or selling assets you own, but actual salary? If a CEO has a large ownership in a publicly traded company with shares in stock, those gains are not taxed under marginal income tax. But do you genuinely think a corporate executives seriously deserves 40x the salary as project managers, accountants, design engineers etc? Do they seriously do 40x the work?
Yes. But a certain percentage of those who have less or earned less are always going to want to make up that "gap" by taking from those who earn more. At a certain point, people, unless they are unable to do so, need to work and earn their own way.
I honestly don't know anyone in the top marginal income bracket that I want the tax rate to be much higher for. That is like .1% of the population. And that is a key tactic by the GOP that works really well. Use attack pieces that suggest increase tax rates for the top marginal income brackets is going to hurt you. Your salary ain't 5 million dollars dude. You aren't the person I want tax rates to go up for. Stop making this personal. You obviously are very angry for some reason now.
No need for loans when I steal your hard earned money from my tax payer funded post 9/11 GI bill. Want to make any mores stupid assumptions or do you want to stop resorting to personal attacks and actually debate?
Yes. There are certainly occasions where the best and brightest do 40x the value of the work (not necessarily the hours.) Try the GARM for awhile. You will see posters thrilled to pay superstars hundreds of millions while other players, who may actually pay significant minutes, receive the vet minimium. Real world: some people are better at certain things. Some people are more talented or more intelligent or work harder. In some cases, some people are luckier or were born with an advantage. The beauty of this country is that if you are talented or intelligent or work hard, you can make it too. Not everyone needs to compare themselves to the most successful, because except for the lucky sperm club, the folks who have done really well by themselves did so either because of working harder, being smarter or being willing to take more risks (and being lucky doing so). And, please, you quit being personal. You are following me all over the forum tonight. I would prefer to end this conversation now.
Hey, if your education was fully funded by service, that is awesome. I must have misremembered an earlier post. You have my respect for that.
A majority of people that make a substantial amount less are going to look to those that have more to make up the difference. It is human nature and to a point I don’t have a problem with it - to a point. The problem is where do you draw that line. Most people do work and at least try to earn their own way. However in some cases working isn’t enough, basic needs are not met and there are societal consequences when those needs are not met. It is just the reality of the world. Not everyone that is lower class or in poverty is there because they won’t work hard. The pull yourself up by the boot straps mentality is as naive as the complete socialist B.S. being trumpeted by some the last few years.
Then, the solution would be to make sure the safety net protects those who CAN'T pull themselves up. My personal experience is that there are a number of young people who cherish their free time (their choice), prefer video games over work (their choice) and want to spend 3500 hours to get a "cape" for their character in a video game while working part time. I feel zero need to help support those people unless I am related to them. If that makes me "conservative" or "unkind", fine. But, people need to work if able and I see a trend going the other way.
It's really cute that you believe our corporate executive positions are rife with individual merit rather than rampant nepotism and "networking". Keep on believing a corporate executive earns 40x more than a lead project engineer or pretty much any proffesion. Funny you bring up NBA salaries. I would say a star NBA player is equivalent to a lead project engineer for let's say the Porsche 911 GT3 design team while the team president of operations in equivalent to VAG CEO. In the corporate world, the scientists and engineers who actually do the leg work in R&D are the ones who get 40x less pay than the corporate managers. It's an artificial inflated salary. If you genuinely think a CEO deserves 20 million dollar salaries(keep in mind they get massive stock options also) you are essentially a cuck for wealthy executives, many of whom "earned" their position through sheer nepotism and "networking".
You are right. Everyone who has really succeeded did so through nepotism or networking. I can't argue with that. By the way, how may public company CEO's have you met? Spent time with? Have you ever held an officer position, or are you a student lecturing me about corporate officers? Just curious.
The Greatest Generation said the same thing about the Baby Boomers and the Baby Boomers said the same thing about Generation X..... and now it is the Millenials that do not want to work. I’m not saying there are no lazy people, but it is the timeless claim that one generation is lazier than the last. I am not talking in absolutes when it comes to the wealthy subsidizing the lower middle class and poor... as there are limits. I make more - I will pay more but it needs to be for a purpose and there need to be limits.
