1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Very disappointed in our "salary dump" trade deadline.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Slam Dunk, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    19,116
    Likes Received:
    20,867
    One more time for the tone deaf fans in the back!!!

    It might just be me but if you took last year's roster, at full strength, and compared to this year's roster, at full strength, there's not a huge difference. The biggest loss was Ariza but we had the likes of Ryno, Black, one-shoulder Luc etc not doing a damn thing come playoff time. This year we don't have the flexibility on switching like last year but we're better equipped up front when Capela sits with Faried, we actually have a capable back up for Paul in Rivers etc. Iman might surprise the masses here and be a key contributor.
     
  2. Slam Dunk

    Slam Dunk Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    230
    Yeah, but I think the problem is the competition has gotten better too. Cousins is a huge upgrade over the strength-in-numbers center position the Warriors had last year, and they have more depth in their bench too. McKinnie has been a really decent pickup for them over McCaw who was completely useless last year.

    Jerebko has been relegated to the bench since Cousins has been back, but he's been playing pretty well also.
     
    joshuaao likes this.
  3. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    My primary frustration is that it feels like a lot of fans are conflating "not getting AD/Butler/Harris" or doing something of that magnitude with today's decision to get underneath the tax line.

    There's a reason the Rockets didn't execute any of these trades until the final 24 hours. They preferred to use their 2019 1st and other assets at their disposal for an acquisition of greater significance. Unfortunately, it takes two to tango. After they canvassed the market for months, they pivoted to this strategy upon finding that the only things keeping them above the tax would be James Ennis and Nik Stauskas as their 11th and 12th men in the playoffs.

    The reason the Rockets didn't make a "splash" isn't because the owner wouldn't spend. They didn't make a splash because they simply didn't have the assets, because they dealt most of them at the beginning of last season (the league year) to acquire Chris Paul, and it takes a while for a contender (i.e. no cap room and draft picks in the 20s) to rebuild that pipeline. Their trade deadline decisions were driven much more by a lack of assets than a lack of funding.
     
  4. Swapshop

    Swapshop Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,424
    Yeah, Tillman too cheap they was about to get AD but pelicans asked for Harklestien and Murry was like... no that is just too much.
     
  5. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    19,116
    Likes Received:
    20,867
    People need to read this post again and again. And again some more.
     
    Chamillionaire likes this.
  6. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,028
    Likes Received:
    19,943
    Love your daily takes and what you do, but can I offer a retort??
    ....

    So the response to not having enough assets to deal was to deal multiple assets for financial savings for Tillman Fertitta?

    Imo not dealing at all was better than doing what they did. The team isn’t a better team for giving away a draft pick just to move Ennis... who I don’t care for but can contribute in a much needed position. Nick Stauskas isn’t a great player by any stretch but what he does fits our style of play. No reason to turn around and get rid of him just to save money.

    If we can sign a good player that gets waived THEN waive Ennis or Stauskas. The only reason anything happened today was for one reason only... to save Tillman money. The Rockets are short on assets because of moves like this that just don’t jive with the Daryl Morey I used to know that would TAKE on salary to get draft picks, not sell them off for tax savings.
     
  7. Chamillionaire

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,792
    Likes Received:
    2,526
    These are the moves that make Morey so valuable. We're in a better position today than last week. Just need everyone healthy.
     
    whiskeyred likes this.
  8. dc rock

    dc rock Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Messages:
    7,108
    Likes Received:
    12,019


    Can't believe they threw away Maarty Leunen for nothing. :(
     
    snowconeman22 and IvanLCPM like this.
  9. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    They didn't give away a draft pick just to move Ennis. They gave away a draft pick because they think Shumpert is legitimately better than Ennis. And at that point, even if Ennis isn't awful... the fact is, there are only so many pieces you can have in a playoff rotation. It's not worth holding him just to be 11th man insurance, if the upside is not having to worry about the tax in future seasons.

    If that doesn't happen and Ennis is comparable to Shumpert in value or better, you have a right to be upset. Personally, I'm curious to see how Shumpert plays. They've tried to acquire him before, he's only 28, and they will have his Bird rights... so I'm hoping for the best. That said, if he busts, you may have a point.
     
  10. Gray_Jay

    Gray_Jay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    1,839
    From the injury that was quoted, it sounds feasible that he may never hoop professionally again. A type of cervical neuropathy? Yikes.
     
  11. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,028
    Likes Received:
    19,943
    And I mentioned this earlier too but I just feel like it’s almost like an arrogant gambler who hit black twice and just assumes he’ll hit again. They hit on Rivers and Faried and there is too much assumption they’ll hit the jackpot with another buyout.

    This team is really not that deep with real NBA players IMO and has real shooting liabilities with Shumpert and PJ as your only 3/4’s. I’m sure we all have those nightmares of game 7 where the Rockets missed how many 3’s in a row?

    There’s just too much assumption I see that every wing worth a damn will just be lining up to make Morey look like a genius. Especially those that can defend well enough to get minutes in a heated playoff battle and hit a 3.

    Just way too much risk with our 3/4 spots. Too much faith in PJ and Shump as much as I like both guys, and how low I was on Ennis.
     
    RichieBanks and Chamillionaire like this.
  12. Gray_Jay

    Gray_Jay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    1,839
    I'm confused. Wasn't Knight, not Ennis, the player at the center of the Alec Burks trade? Which then, I imagine, got expanded to a three team trade once Sacramento made it clear Shumpert was available?

    (And, incidentally, made the transaction not totally look like a raw salary dump. That Shumpert was cheaper than Burks (sp?) is a bonus.)
     
  13. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    IMO, the entire model of this year's team is built around the idea that Gordon, Rivers, House (if he's back), etc. can fill many of the 3 minutes. So I don't think it's quite as dire as you make it seem. That said, I do agree that today's moves are built on the premise that the Shumpert that has consistently played 25-30 minutes for a winning Sacramento team is the real Shumpert, as opposed to his iffy final years in Cleveland. If their faith in him turns out to be misguided, this would absolutely be worthy of criticism later on. (One reason I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt on the "cost" stuff in this case is that they've wanted Shumpert before, going back to July 1, 2017... we'll soon find out if they're right.)
     
    snowconeman22 and Gray_Jay like this.
  14. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    Yes, but the Ennis move is what got them under the tax. Knight for Shumpert (or Burks) saved some costs, yes, but it was trading a guy who wasn't playing for someone who was clearly an upgrade. I didn't sense too many people being that upset at the time. It's the Ennis move, which made it clear the team was trying to avoid the tax altogether, that seemed to spark such a strong reaction from some. Maybe your timeline/feed was different.
     
  15. Gray_Jay

    Gray_Jay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    1,839
    Will PJ's touch on the corner 3 that was noted by, among other places, ESPN the magazine as among the best in the NBA, recover once his usage dips below the 35 or so minutes/game the Rockets have been forced to use him since no one else can seemingly defend 4s and shoot? He was amongst the best shooters of that shot, at the beginning of the season.
     
    The Cat likes this.
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,028
    Likes Received:
    19,943
    Yeah I’m hoping like hell Morey is two steps ahead of us here and I can get feeling better tomorrow. I think I just keep thinking about game 7 and can just see it now where we have to play Shump and PJ 40 minutes because they actually play defense, but they can’t hit the broad side of a barn from 3. I’ll feel way way way better if he hits black again and gets a Markieff Morris or House comes back and is as affective as he was before.
     
  17. Gray_Jay

    Gray_Jay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    1,839
    I guess I'd been swayed by, e.g. Corrosion's take on Knight's deal that it had a lot more value next year as an expiring to get someone really good, than it's value in taking 20 percent less salary in a trade.

    I was never a great Ennis guy, though, like so many of the newbies on the team, I wondered if he'd improve with a touch more seasoning. Don't really have the time to develop him though, with an old, fragile team that needs as good of playoff seeding as possible (to set up as few playoff games as possible that need to be played), to maximize its chances of good health for facing the top teams in the West.
     
    Slam Dunk likes this.
  18. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    I will say that I might have a different feeling if we hadn't been through July 1, 2017. Even coming off a disastrous Finals, the fact that they nearly acquired Shumpert then (even with multiple years left on his contract, a different owner, and no cash concerns) convinces me that they legitimately wanted him for basketball reasons. We'll find out soon if it's worth it. (Hopefully it is, since they have his Bird rights...)
     
    Gray_Jay likes this.
  19. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,028
    Likes Received:
    19,943
    Yeah it’s mostly current events that has me freaked the Rox are putting too much on him. Love PJ but this team really really puts some unrealistic expectations on his plate. Him getting back to hitting his normal rate from the corner would help, but I still think you can’t just assume “PJ got this” with every possible gap to fill.
     
    Gray_Jay likes this.
  20. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    It would have had more value than now, certainly, but it wouldn't have had positive value. Best case, neutral filler.

    One positive of ducking the LT this year, assuming they're able to do so, is that they should be able to make a legitimate effort to re-sign Shumpert -- and if they do that, he could potentially be similar filler to what Knight was. No reason to let him walk over potential LT concerns, since you're using this year to get out of your stated fear of repeater territory. No guarantee it'll work, of course -- after all, as with Ariza and Phoenix, all it takes is one team to blow the bidding out of the water. But if Shumpert plays well, the Rockets have no excuse not to make a good-faith effort to retain him on a team-friendly deal. If they don't, at that point, I'll be in full support of the pitchforks.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now