in a news thread based on the cat's opinion a link to sam amico quoting kelly iko reporting the obvious.
A Lakers team with only Paul George and Lebron doesn't get past the Rockets OR Warriors so it would be foolish for Lebron to even consider it knowing what he'd have to lose. When it comes to the Rockets helping give the Lakers Cp3 on top of Lebron and George for their scraps, that's absolutely ridiculous. The Rockets would be creating a team that they couldn't beat and taking back scrubs to do so....what's the upside for the Rockets? As to OKC, again, why would they do that? Unless Sam Presti is a Lakers homer there's no reason for it. He'd be helping create a team that he couldn't hope to ever beat in exchange for scrubs. If Lebron and CP3 sign in LA it makes it to where George CAN'T sign there giving him the leverage to convince him to stay in OKC. I just don't see a realistic scenario where LA ends up with Paul George, CP3, and Lebron, at best they'd get 2 and even that wouldn't be a winning team.
To be clear, my confidence level is not just based on speculation and/or logical reasoning. I do have some concrete intel on this. But like everything, it's always subject to change until the ink is dry. The obsession some have with "reaping glory" is so strange. If/when CP does re-sign, I don't want "credit" for it. I was just passing along a partly-informed message to other Rockets fans. If it turns out accurate, you won't see me taking a victory lap. It's nothing like that. I feel confident that CP will re-sign, based partly on the obvious reasoning and partly on things I've recently learned. I was excited about it, so I posted a message on a message board with other Rockets' fans. I want the team to do well, and I think this is a good move. There's no reason to make this into more than it is
That’s an interesting and great point. Never even began to think about that route. It’s tough because given the contracts none of the suggestions are going to be too sexy; I don’t like the idea of Batum or Crabbe; but we do have to be realistic. What other players do you think can fit in this category?
You are parroting what pretty much every homer poster on this site includes in every one of their posts. You're just making stuff up. #1, we have no idea what would have happened. #2, CP3 did get injured. The Rockets were lucky that he didn't get injured sooner. Look at his past playoff history. So what I'm suggesting is that in a world where (i) the rest of the West continues to get better including a Lakers team with Lebron and Paul George, (ii) Lebron, PG or a similar impact player isn't coming, (ii) the Rockets already have to decide whether to match what will be a big Capela offer, (iii) then they'll have to decide how to improve SF position, which is always overlooked because we're just crossing our fingers for Lebron. again, if he doesn't come, and you're capped, you're basically looking at resigning Ariza. Great role player and bench player, getting older and worse(r) in the playoffs, (iv) then they'll have to decide do you give CP3 4-5 years at max/near max money. In other words, "run-it-back". I get hat I'm the resident pessimist... but the truth of the matter is that in the last 6 years the Rockets have basically beaten ONE truly very good team in the playoffs. The Clippers. Who were really very good that year. And then choked. If my perspective is the glass is half empty, instead of the glass is half full, it's because of facts. The Rockets could definitely still be the #1 seed next year - though I think it would be harder. But I'd put the likelihood of a "run-it-back" squad making through two really good western conference teams (as there'd be at least 4 imo...) WITHOUT getting injured and WITH their players not shrinking in the playoffs at a VERY low %. It's not, not being a fan, it's just looking at facts. But again, bear in mind, all of the above has to be the situation. If Lebron is going to Philly for example, its not the same situation.
Why give Lebron the Max when he wants opt outs after one year? Lebron will make more money opting in his final year then be traded here and he'll be a free agent next year.. If he don't work out he can sign with the Lakers with Kawhi.. in 2019
If Lebron headed to Houston to create a big 4 with Harden, CP3, and Capela, that team easily wins the championsihp, why would he leave in FA to take less money to form a lesser team in LA? It just wouldn't make sense.
He explained where his information came from immediately afterward, which made it clear that of course it was subject to change. You're taking issue with the wording of one tweet when we have/had a ton more information to go on. My main issue is this: If you're going to nitpick over exact wording (Twitter lacks an edit function, by the way) and things like that, even when we have ample reason to believe that he had legitimate information, all it does is chase people with info away because they don't want to deal with all the drama. CyberX has cited this dynamic himself before. (By the way, Jesus did own his "mistake" right after Melo was traded to OKC. He said he was wrong and apologized.) Technically, based on the wording of that one tweet, he was. However, based on his follow-up tweets (including many THAT SAME DAY, as I posted in this thread), I believe his information was credible. Personally, I'd rather focus on the plurality of the evidence. I think that's a much more prudent and fair standard than trying to play "gotcha" over semantics and the wording of one tweet. (And by the way, in your example, if your client didn't inherently realize that nothing was done until the offer was formally accepted -- then he's very unaware and naive.)
You are wrong here. It was a done deal bro. Why would harden basically say it was come on. Everybody knows new management backed out. I'm not mad at melo. I would wanna get out of new York quick. They didn't wanna deal with us after new guy got there. That's like super easy to understand. Melo didn't want drama. N okc at the time was a good plan b
Lol. They don't get past the Warriors. The Rockets would be a question mark at this point. Probably not, but possible. Remember, Lebron is basically the GOAT when it comes to the playoffs. PG was actually very good in the playoffs. But more to the point: #1 - the Lakers have trade-able assets. VERY trade-able assets. They could move Ingram, Kuzma and Lonzo in a package and get a VERY meaningful piece in return. Not sure who that is, but it's there. The Wizards example is the one that speaks to me the most, because I think the Wizards are actually better without John Wall because of personality issues and the WIzards are a better, longer term team with Lonzo feeding Beal the ball, with Ingram and Kuzma being the long athletic wing types that are all the rage today. Meanwhile, in LAL, with Lebron leading the show, Wall is more valuable, to me. #2 - the LAL could still do a S&T for PG and therefore have room to add a 3rd free agent this offseason... not that there's a great 3rd FA, but it would give them room to start adding decent pieces. #3 - and equally as important, if Lebron chooses LAL, it's not because he's choosing the best option to win a ring. It's because of other reasons. Remember when he went back to Cleveland, it wasn't obvious that team was going to go to 4 straight finals. Kyrie was a good young player, but that team sucked. They managed to create a team though with their assets that was Finals worthy. LAL is in MUCH the same position. Frankly, to me, LAL is where I'd put my money. I think LAL is currently the favorite or is at least in line with Houston. Definitely a valid point. I just think it's just strategically a different path to take. Bearing in mind the Lakers can still get better. In my view, a LAL team with Lebron and PG is a VERY VERY good team. They're "better" with CP3, but they're a real threat to the West as is. Lebron just got swept, but he was also in 2 games in the last minute, with a roster that absolutely sucked. At the end of the day, I have basically ZERO faith that CP3 stays injury free through a western conference playoffs that includes VERY GOOD teams in GSW, LAL and SAS. OKC has no chance once PG leaves. Whether the Western Conference includes 1 great team, 3 great teams, or 0 great teams. An OKC thunder squad with Russ and Carmelo isn't going anywhere. And while losing PG would create some salary room... NOBODY of significance is going there anytime soon. Might as well take on Deng's contract - which becomes expiring the next offseason -and get two young assets with A LOT of upside. There are possibilities where it happens. It's definitely feasible if the 3 guys want it to happen.
First, nothing I said was made up. The Rockets had double-digit halftime leads in both games 6 and 7 without CP3. While it isn’t a virtual certainty, odds are good they would’ve won one of those games with him in the lineup, especially with one in Houston. That’s not being a homer, that’s looking at the series through 5 games with an objective lens. Second, I’m well aware CP3 is injury prone and the long-term risk signing him to the max presents. I’m just not someone that takes his ball and goes home at the sight of other teams getting better. The Rockets won 65 games last year, likely would’ve beaten Golden State with a healthy CP3 in games 6 and 7, and went 53-7 in games Harden, Paul and Capela all played. Excuse me for not blowing that core up because the Lakers get LeBron and PG13. In your Lakers’ outlook, you assume the Wizards would trade Wall for a package of the Lakers’ young assets. And I’m the one making stuff up? Finally, you do what you are suggesting and you are telling James Harden that you won’t be competing for a championship in his prime, and have helped form another super team in your conference. Real smart .
Some of you guys forget how much Beard and D'Antoni let alone Morey have to say about cp3 matters. Those 3 alone would do whatever it take to resign CP3. People also forget Tilman has already addressed he must resign CP3. There isn't any way CP3 is leaving unless he wants to which I highly doubt because of the huge success he's had. CP3 is going to get paid. He's already recruiting lebron.
The scrubs that you are calling "very tradeable assets" are nowhere near the best offer teams could get for CP3 or Paul George....so again, no reason whatsoever to trade them to the Lakers simply to make the Lakers a contender. That sign and trade would have to happen after the other 2 FA's signed....and if those other 2 FA's signed, there's no reason for a team to do a sign and trade. Well yeah, if Lebron picks the Lakers, he's specifically picking not winning anymore rings and that means his primary motivator is hanging out in LA very much like how Melo's primary motivator was hanging out in NY. That might make sense to you, but I think Lebron cares a LOT more about his legacy than to become the next Melo. An LA team with PG and Lebron makes them the 3rd best team in the West, likely to be beaten in 5 games by either the Rockes or Warriors, with no real hopes to get any better any time soon. Rather than taking the Lakers scrubs and creating yet another team in the West they can't ever hope of beating, why not just trade PG to a team in the East and get a better return for him? There's just no reason to help out the Lakers.
Bingo.... I can give 2 ish bout Tillmans tax.... but what I do care about is the Houston Rockets signing old, injury prone Paul to a 5 year deal. If he is willing to do a 3+1 (PO)... then the Rockets should jump all over it.
You're entire response is again "we'd have won if CP3 didn't get injured". I get that we want to hold onto that possibility. But it doesn't (i) make it true, or (ii) make it matter anyway. It's a hypothetical that didn't happen and we'll never know. Not really worth discussing, imo. In a past year I'd have been more open to discussing it. But it's become somewhat of a repetitive theme in recent years to point to hypotheticals. Maybe Harden had a concussion last year. Maybe Nene didn't get injured. If only McHale didn't suck as a coach. Etc. Even to the extent they're true, they are hypotheticals and excuses. And they always conveniently ignore the other side. What if Iggy didn't get injured? What if GSW had decided to try harder and not have whatever discord they apparently had in the regular season? What if Ricky Rubio didn't get injured - maybe that series goes longer and CP3 is injured sooner? There are always hypotheticals. There are two noteworthy things about the 53-7 record with Harden, CP3, and Capela. One is the winning percentage. Two, always overlooked, is the # of games played. The Rockets played 99 games regular season + playoffs. So those three were together for 60 of them, basically 60%. That's horrendous, and made even worse because of the playoffs. And even with that, on the spectrum of how much the Rockets could be injured, in my view they were still more on the lucky side then the unlucky side. CP3 has now been meaningfully injured in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, with the uninjured year being a year where he only played 7 games. He played his most games EVER in the playoffs this year. This goes towards the definition of insanity. I love CP3, and think he was the most important player on the squad in the WCF. I DO ACTUALLY agree that they'd probably have beaten the GSW if he stayed healthy. I don't know that, it didn't happen, it's not worth discussing, Iggy also got injured, LMAM also got injured, etc. But it doesn't matter... expecting CP3 to stay healthy for what would likely be at least 2 and probably more (Boston would be a hard series) DEEP playoff series is insane.
After winning 3 of 5 games vs the Warriors, it is more likely than not that the Rockets would have won one out of the remaining 2 games if CP3 was healthy. Suggesting otherwise is just pessimism for the sake of pessimism.
Besides Batum and Crabbe, another option would be Gallinari with the Clippers. He signed a 3 year 65 million contract last season. There’s Harrison Barnes in Dallas, but the Mavs wouldn’t trade him here. Then you have guys like Evan Turner in Portland. If OKC loses George, perhaps they might want to unload Melo and would be interested in a package centered around Anderson and a draft pick.
While expecting CP3 to stay completely healthy in the playoffs is a tall order and perhaps “insane,” it’s far less “insane” than blowing up the core of 65-win team that pushed one of the best teams of all-time to 7 games in the playoffs to form another super team in your own conference while delivering a clear message to James Harden that he won’t win a championship in Houston.
It's chicken and egg a bit. Both CP3 and PG are free agents. So, basically, OKC and HOU can't really get ANYTHING for them right now. To the extent the teams have any leverage, it'd just be to say no, we won't trade you there, good luck. Which is possible... but generally historically in the NBA doesn't happen. To the extent Cleveland S&T'd Lebron the first time to Miami just to get some assets back. So.. kind of, yeah, that'd be the best offers they could get. This is much more likely in OKC's situation because of all the reasons we're discussing (eg. why would HOU sign and trade CP3 at all...). OKC would DEFINITELY take back those assets. They're fuc*ed otherwise. PG is leaving. He's going to LAL. They can't get back squat for him right now. I'm not going to debate these logistics. These types of things happen all the time. KD "signed" with the GSW before they even technically had the room to sign him.. they ultimately had to/moved Bogut. Nevermind the fact that if this was all their plan (the 3 players), the other scenario of OKC doing a S&T is very likely. Dude went back to a Cavs team that wasn't close to being championship worthy. I think if he goes to LAL, for personal reasons, he'll make it work from a legacy perspective, whether it results in rings or not. As is, he already gets **** for being 3-6 in the FInals, as if making the Finals.. but losing... is worse then missing the Finals. "But he's been swept 2x in the Finals!! That would never happen to MJ!!" um... MJ got swept twice in the first round. He can definitely make LAL work for his legacy. That's just making up potentialities. Maybe they lose to the Rockets in the playoffs. Maybe CP3 is injured. Maybe they make other moves. Who knows?? Seriously bobby... Surely you understand what a free agent means?? Paul George is a FREE AGENT. He's not agreeing to a trade to a team he doesn't want to go to. The only legitimate question is would OKC take back Deng, Ingram and Lonzo... or rather keep cap space to sign the Will Barton's (or, lol, Trevor Ariza's) of the world. The answer is they'd absolutely do that S&T. Deng's contract would be a potential asset next offseason and Ingram and Lonzo would be GREAT GREAT value (for their contracts) with upside.
