Obviously it was incredibly stupid to vote for Westbrook last year. Harden had the team success and the stats. But I’m willing to accept that people were blinded by the “omg we haven’t seen a triple double average in 40 years.” I’m past it. Right now we’re looking at an obscenely obvious scenario for unanimous MVP in James Harden. Amazing numbers on the best team in the NBA. It could not be more cut and dry. But some voters will instead choose a guy who has great but not historical numbers on a good but not great team. The logic required to vote for Lebron is mind numbingly stupid. And has been pointed out, if the roles were reversed, there is no chance in **** that Harden would get 1% of the consideration that Lebron has. But this thing is over, Harden will win in a landslide.
This. The triple double, while dumb in its own right, at least is a historical precedent. Lebron has basically posted decent numbers, not historic, while leading an underachieving team that imploded once to the 4th best record in the weaker conference. It really does boil down to "I really just hate James Harden and would rather anyone else win it". Anyone who votes Lebron at this point has a clear bias.
not sure how stat chasing/stealing rebounds/uncontested rebounds is historic.. players like ricky davis done this before and it was disgusting.. players doing this in a course of a season is 100x as disgusting
he didn’t last year I’d really like to hear a detailed, well thought out reason for voting for Lebron instead of Harden. I want to hear legit reasons and not the usual stupidity like “his numbers are so great in his 15th season” or “he should win it every year.”
Remember when they gave the MVP to Karl Malone for putting up 26/10/4 in his 15th season at the age of 36? No? He finished 4th in voting? Interesting.
I’ve never seen a year where more players in the NBA claim that they are going to be the most valuable player. That’s why James Harden winning this is going to be so special. Of course, none of this means anything unless Houston wins the championship.
Harden should win the MVP, and he will win the MVP. But here’s my best devil’s advocate attempt — three points: 1. Clutch time performance is heavily in LeBron’s favor. The Cavs have consequentially vastly outperformed their point differential, which suggests LeBron’s On/Off numbers are skewed too low. 2. The amount of wins he adds to his team versus if he was not on the roster is higher than for any other player. This claim is less evidence-based, although ESPN stats did have an analysis at some point that said LeBron had the highest Win Probability Added score of any player. Still, it is plausible and I suspect most voters believe it to be true. 3. Based on individual performance this year, if you could restart just this season with one other player on your roster — who would it be? I think most people would answer LeBron before Harden.
My personal opinion: I would vote for me. The body of work, how I'm doing it, what's been happening with our team all year long, how we've got so many injuries and things of that nature, guys in and out, to be able to still keep this thing afloat, I definitely would vote me.
Bet you could just given any of those ESPN employees 10k and tell them to say good things about anyone for the MVP, Lonzo Ball would be in the discussion atm and might win the MVP.
If there was any doubt for Harden being MVP (there shouldn’t be imo) hopefully he can lock it up tonight with a spectacular performance in LA tonight on a nationally televised game.
Rebuttals just for fun I don't really understand exactly what you're saying, lol, but it probably typically doesn't make sense to look to clutch time statistics for a 64+ win team. That's a team that is blowing a lot of people out, generally. This is as much or more about the roster around the player, then the MVP-esque player themselves. It also completely flies in the face of historical precedent of what an MVP should be. MVPs are almost always from a top 2 or 4 team in the league. Those teams have talent beyond the MVP. Beyond that, it's impossible to quantify, really. Though if I'm looking to a stats, most of the advanced stats including WS related ones and VORP favor Harden. Finally, I'd much rather take a superstar that adds 10 wins to a mid 50's win team taking them to mid 60's then one that adds 20 wins to a 30 win team. Cause I have no idea what that second player would do to the mid 50's win team. Well... I mean of course we do... but in the evaluation of just this single season. Also.. forget the finally above... I contend that Harden would actually have the Cavs with a better record. Harden IS a system, in and of himself. Lebron is almost the antithesis. He's the fighting of a system. There's also a kind of clash with other great players with him. See my last comment above. If I'm looking at regular season only, I choose Harden at this point. I've seen Harden drag a crap roster to mid 50's win in a tougher conference. Now I've seen him drag a slightly better roster to mid 60's win in a tougher conference. Harden's consistently had better regular season records with lesser teammates than Lebron has. At his best in Miami, I think they had 67 wins. So Lebron, Wade and Bosh plus a supporting cast, all in their prime, in a weaker conference, gets you what Harden has done with a 32 year old CP3 that missed 23 games. ---- All the rebuttals, aside, even if one conceded your points, Harden would still have more points in his ledger.
I really don't give a damn about the MVP at this point with the playoffs starting, however I did post this previously about LeBron. From Dec 19th to Mar 15th (almost two months) LeBron was so clutch that he led the Cavs to a 16 and 21 record. That's 37 games (nearly half the season). At one point during this stretch the Cavs were 1 and 11 on the road (between Dec 19th & Feb 6th). He's had a great year but he isn't the MVP this yr.
I didn’t write that very well, so I will clarify. Because LeBron has been so effective in the clutch, the Cavs have won a lot of close games. Consequentially, their actual win total is 7 games higher than their expected win total based on point differential. Since On/Off numbers are based on point differential and are oblivious to actual win%, LeBron’s impact on winning according to On/Off appears to be much less than it likely is in reality.
Gotcha. Well the converse (rebuttal) to that is why were they in so many close games? Have better pre-clutch time stats!!! Lol
Can't argue that, Doc Rivers is a level-headed, intelligent man who knows basketball better than anyone on the planet. Plus, he's a gentleman, superbly nice, and his family is worth writing home about.
He does have a vote this year, as do many others who have claimed they're voting for LeBron. I still think Harden will win this race but I think it'll be closer than it should be.
In a brutally tough Western Conference, one that was handed to the Golden State Warriors before a game had been played, Harden led the Rockets to the No. 1 seed while fueling the league's most prolific offense -- all while running mate Chris Paul missed 24 games. Harden's the NBA's scoring leader (30.6) by more than two points per game and ranks third in assists (8.7) despite also having to share lead guard duties with a future Hall of Famer. While Paul has been an important addition, Harden is the linchpin, the piece that has elevated the Rockets into title contention and taken the offense to historic levels. Throughout this season, Harden has accounted for more than 51 points per game for the Rockets, which ranks first -- even slightly better than James. He's also been the NBA's most lethal isolation scorer while doing it very efficiently, averaging such a high point total with a 62 true shooting percentage and a 54.1 effective field goal percentage. The advanced stats, designed to help measure an individual's value without bias, point to Harden as well. After finishing as a runner-up for the MVP twice in the past three years, Harden ranks first in Player Efficiency Rating, Offensive Win Shares, Win Shares, Win Shares Per 48 Minutes, Box Score Plus/Minus, Player Impact Estimate, Real Plus/Minus Wins and Offensive Real Plus/Minus. According to Basketball Reference, Harden will likely finish as the fourth player ever to average at least 30 points, eight assists and five rebounds for an entire season, joining Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson and Westbrook. Take Harden off the Rockets and they would still possibly crawl into the playoffs -- although that's far from a guarantee. His true value is in Houston's ceiling -- a legitimate title contender. Because of Harden, the pause button has been pushed on the Warriors' coronation. Without him, no one would be giving them any chance to pull the upset. James, no doubt, has his own case. Not only does he have a chance to play in his 82nd game Wednesday night against the New York Knicks, a commendable feat, but also James has navigated the Cavaliers through an incredibly difficult season that started with Kyrie Irving's off-season trade and a new-look front office. Then came chemistry issues, injuries, losing streaks, a midseason roster overhaul and Tyronn Lue's absence. Through it all, the Cavs have a chance to match last season's win total. Still, it's tough to ignore James' role in Cleveland's dreadful January, a month that was one of his worst ever. That was his opportunity to surge ahead of Harden with the Houston point guard sidelined because of a hamstring injury. Instead, the Cavaliers crumbled before general manager Koby Altman's season-saving trades that led to a reinvigorated James. It's also tough to overlook James' lack of consistency on the defensive end, currently holding a worse defensive rating and Defensive Real Plus/Minus than Harden, who has been hammered over the years for his shoddy performance at that end. While James has slipped, Harden has made strides. No, he's not the reason for the defensive shift, as the Rockets boast the NBA's sixth-best defensive rating, but he's not the liability he once was. Meanwhile, the Cavs rank 29th. James wasn't the only one with bad injury luck either. Harden's pick-and-roll partner Clint Capela missed seven games. Trevor Ariza, an important 3-and-D piece, was sidelined for 14 games. Eric Gordon, last year's Sixth Man of the Year, missed 12 games. Stretch-forward Ryan Anderson has missed a bulk of the final month. Not even those injuries nor Paul's extended absence could slow down Harden or the Rockets. It's not about voter fatigue. It's not about saying Harden has overtaken James' consistent standing at the top of the league's hierarchy. And it's not about any of those other silly reasons you have likely heard fans scream about. It's simply recognition that for this season alone, Harden has been the best -- and most valuable -- player in the NBA. Isn't that what voters are trying to figure out?
