ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Cavaliers 2/3/2018

SF3isBack!! · Feb 4, 2018

cdxiong said: ↑

Rest cp3 next game, go full strength against Heats and Wolves.
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Rest Harden

Os Trigonum · Feb 4, 2018

basketballholic said: ↑

Looks very dejected. Things are coming to a head in Cleveland.

All the same, he's still one of the top ten best defenders in the NBA.

YOU HAVE TO:

1. Know the player. This is the most important thing when it comes to evaluating how good/bad a player is and whether or not he is at the end of his career and his skills have faded.

Lebron is one of the three greatest players of ALL-TIME. And a huge part of his status is because he has ALWAYS been a great defender. Has that changed? Has his defensive skills eroded? Look no further than his offense. Has any of those skills eroded? Nope. Neither has his defense.

All that is happening in Cleveland is Lebron is refusing to carry the team defensively. It's not because his skills have eroded to the point where he's a bad defender. It's because he's playing on a bad defensive team. He's surrounded by guys that don't want to be there (Love, Shump, others), or that can't play defense (Love, IT, Rose, Korver, Frye), or that are distracted (TT, others) and aren't giving effort, or are injured or coming off injuries, or who are over the hill in their career.

This is why you watch the player. And it's why you -

2. Watch the games. You watch the games to see what the team is doing, what's the defensive scheme, what the matchup are, who is getting beat, who is helping, rotating, etc.

When you watch the games you see what I just described above, a listless bunch of players. And that explains

3. The numbers. The numbers say they're a bad team. The numbers say LeBron is on a bad team.....not that LeBron is now all of a sudden the 300th best defender in the league this year when he's been a top ten defender throughout his career and arguably one of the twenty or so best defenders to ever lace them up in the Association.

-----------

This is why you don't look at numbers and make your belief and argument around numbers. There's bodies and minds and teams behind those numbers. You have to watch the games. And you have to know the talent. Then you can understand the numbers.

Thank you very much.

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Now let's speak to what LeBron is, once again, failing at. That is....his relationship with the owner and front office of the Cavs. He failed his first time. He failed in Miami after and during their championship runs. And he's failing again.

When Lebron returned to Cleveland, Gilbert and him made up. They patched up their differences. Gilbert wanted to win enough to swallow his pride. Lebron wanted to win his way sooooo badly that he left a championship team and environment to go back home and be the hometown hero. Lebron didn't like Riley keeping a tight reign on everything and not responding to all of LeBron's whims concerning personnel, coaching, and player discipline and.favoutritism Lebron wanted more say so in the roster, style of play, and how the team was operated. So he divorced Riley and remarried his first wife.

But this time Gilbert, in order to make amends, bent over backwards to accommodate LeBron with the roster. They traded the first pick (Wiggins) for Kevin Love. As it turns out, that was a crappy deal long term for Cleveland. They have used Love as mostly a Ryan Anderson clone floor spreader over the years, making him the third option while paying him max money and severely limiting his touches. A very team limiting move when your #2 option (Kyrie) was and is still one of the WORST defenders in the NBA (but that's covered up since Kyrie is on one of the best defensive teams in the NBA where three or four other guys cover for him, another reason why you know the player and watch the games). The Cavs would have been much better off to keep and develop Wiggins, clear cap, and sign an ace wing/shooting guard that was both an ace defender and great shooter, and sign or trade for a great defensive center and a floor spreading 4.

No, they went out and traded for JR Smith and Iman Shumpert in a move Lebron loved right along with the acquisition of Love. Those were his boyz, a very low character JR, and a dinged Shumpert who has never been the same since his rookie season knee injury, who has never been able to average 30 minutes a game and who was out on injury when they traded for him. Not only did they go get those guys....but they re-signed them when it was obvious they needed to move on.

They subsequently fired the coach to please LeBron and brought in a former player with no head coaching experience to be the head coach (if you call him that) and keep Lebron happy and not pouting.

Lebron, with his on court greatness and a tidgen of luck because Draymond Green got suspended a game, pulled that sack o' mess across the finish line once in three seasons. That happened to be the year he spent sucking on popsickles with Love at the beach to convince Love (a role player on a Lebron team) to graciously accept the max 5-year deal the Cavs were now desperate for Love to sign because they would have no cap space to sign anybody else if he walked. And also the same year he thumped on Gilbert's desk and made the Cavs hand Tristan (another obvious replaceable role player on a Lebron-led team) over $80 million to be an undersized mediocre player at a key position for a team with championship aspirations.

Lebron then lost Kyrie who basically just got tired of putting up with Lebron's dominant presence and identity and demands.

Most all that failure is on Lebron. He took advantage of a weak owner and a situation that gave him control. He's not a very good general manager, and he has a demonstrable weakness in being a good follower. He's had trouble following the coach at every stop. And he's had trouble leading every team except for the team he walked on to where Wade was already esconced and Wade supported him becoming the leader. And in that situation he chafed with the GM and coach.

So, like Kobe at the tail end of his career, Lebron has created his own mess now in Cleveland. Because of his demands on the front office they are now somewhat land-locked in their ability to adjust the roster and at least partially because of the demands of playing alongside him, he lost Kyrie and now Love is listless. The whole thing is crumbling and Lebron bears his share of the responsibility.

But regardless..............all that does not mean he is all of a sudden a negative value poor defender. He's on a crap team, partially due to his own making, that he has lost in the locker room as well as the fact that many of their (not his) skills have now eroded with age and injury.

Big changes are coming. Love most likely gone next week. DJ and Kemba may be riding to the rescue....But only if Lebron commits to 18-19. Barring that (major moves) the Cavs are dead in the water. And Lebron may even request a trade out next week. Would not surprise me one bit.
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two things:

deserves its own thread. seriously.

#2. would LeBron be a cancer here? don't hear as much of that as we did with all the Carmelo Anthony threads. I really wonder about it though.

justtxyank · Feb 4, 2018

Os Trigonum said: ↑

two things:

deserves its own thread. seriously.

#2. would LeBron be a cancer here? don't hear as much of that as we did with all the Carmelo Anthony threads. I really wonder about it though.
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One part he left out is that Kyrie only demanded a trade after he found out that lebron had already tried to get management to trade him to Phoenix

I won’t call Lebron a cancer, but you can’t deny that he brings stress to an organization. He joins your team and the clock starts for coach to be fired and all sorts of drama. The only thing that buys more time on the clock is a title.

J.R. · Feb 4, 2018

Drama Queen Control Freak can stay in Cleveland or hell even go to Golden State.

khanhdum · Feb 4, 2018

justtxyank said: ↑

One part he left out is that Kyrie only demanded a trade after he found out that lebron had already tried to get management to trade him to Phoenix

I won’t call Lebron a cancer, but you can’t deny that he brings stress to an organization. He joins your team and the clock starts for coach to be fired and all sorts of drama. The only thing that buys more time on the clock is a title.
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Not in Miami. Pat Riley kept Lebron in check

Cstyle42 · Feb 4, 2018

Gordon and Anderson for Lebron... problem solved

hakeem94 · Feb 4, 2018

pls someone remind me of our record since lockeroom invasion game

Juxtaposed Jolt · Feb 4, 2018

ApacheWarrior said: ↑

Flyin Ryan with another dunk in this game. He is becoming untouchable
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Or he's upping his trade stock. Either way, Rockets win, in both scenarios lol.

#PositiveVibes

ApacheWarrior · Feb 4, 2018

Juxtaposed Jolt said: ↑

Or he's upping his trade stock. Either way, Rockets win, in both scenarios lol.

#PositiveVibes
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I’m trying to build up his trade value as well. Lol

zeeshan2 · Feb 4, 2018

Mazulis · Feb 4, 2018

Bravoexo said: ↑

Five of Ten. including #1
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Should have been 6 ! Luc with excellent hypnosis and LBJ with stelar defense !

hakeem94 · Feb 4, 2018

Mazulis said: ↑

Should have been 6 ! Luc with excellent hypnosis and LBJ with stelar defense !

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should have been 10... every damn cp3 touches the ball its better play than no 3 or 4 from that list (teague or somebody with fancy dribble that cp3 does almost every time down the floor)
also dont forget that rhyno dunk

Deuce · Feb 4, 2018

Lebron initially left Cleveland when they failed to put a good enough team together.
Lebron left Miami because Riley did not restock the cupboard and let the role players get old.
Lebron will leave Cleveland again because of GM/player mismanagement.

The running theme here is GMing. This is where I feel Morey would make the right moves to make things work.

Deuce · Feb 4, 2018

I concur!

Shaq2Yao said: ↑

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hakeem94 · Feb 4, 2018

cdrive · Feb 4, 2018

I’m still on Cloud 9 man...

Last night I had my 2 closest Rockets ride or die Bros over with their families. So I was watching the game off and on. Couldn’t believe what I was seeing when I’d get back to the game. Now today I’m watching highlights. Goosebumps man this team is for real.

zcarenow · Feb 4, 2018

kingkingston said: ↑

Rockets back in the top 10 for defensive efficiency at number 8
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stat wise, don't the Rockets have a better defense than the warriors?

kingkingston · Feb 4, 2018

hakeem94 · Feb 4, 2018

hakeem94 · Feb 4, 2018

hakeem94 said: ↑

Click to expand...

heres a better version

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ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Cavaliers 2/3/2018

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