You got me. He wasn't the sole scorer his whole career... there are a couple of years on the fringes, lol. As I noted above... fine, ignore those years then. It makes it look worse, since AI underperformed in the playoffs with Melo relative to the rest of his career. I mean we can slice it and dice it any way you want. I've never even been the biggest AI fan in the first place. I think he's overrated inefficient scorer. But its a disservice to say "well, AI had a much easier path in those playoffs, that's why!". In 00-01, he had two 50 point games. He had another four, 40 point games. yada, yada, potata. The statistical argument we're/I'm trying to investigate here... does Harden, statistically, under-perform more relative to his comparable players, and does he have more really horrible games than his comparable players. I took the "short-cut" of using PER, and GameScores, as that seems reasonable. I looked compared to various other superstar players. Noting that it's not apples to apples, I said ok, let's look at Kobe for a few years, let's look at AI (take the majority years where he's clearly the only guy), let's look at Lebron before the move to Miami. I'm sure we could ultimately find a ton of players that are somewhat comparable and really dig in. Just wanted to see if the stats match the eye test. so if you were Morey, after 2 years ago's players MVP performance WCFs season and last season's MVP performance single handedly carrying the rockets to 55 wins/3rd seed in the west, beating the the MVP in the 1st round, and losing to clearly superior team and elite coach and defense.
against this ages, multi star studded championship calibre teams Needs at least 1 more superstar and another superstar? DEFINTELY YES Needs team mates who will step up in the playoffs offensive and defensively? YES those are both YES unless you think any 1 player can replace harden and make us guaranteed champions howbout MDA and he doesn't know how to pace himself so heaviest burden + mvp performance + highest seed possible + high usage + MDA's 7s man rotation/over reliance on Harden = exerting too much during the reg season MDA & harden's priority during the reg season last year was to get as many wins as possible to get the best seed possbile and HCA unlike Lue/Cavs and Pops/Spurs whose priority was Lebron and Kawhis rest that's the reason for getting CP3 so Harden can get his rest and help like how Lebron is wtih Kyrie and Love or Curry/KD/Klay was there anyone who could have pushed the rocekts to 55 wins in the west last season? Lebron at best prolly 50 games.. then what, he and rockets get swept by GS in the 2nd round.. so not farther than harden
so you want to trade harden but bring up Kobe, AI, and Lebron only way Lebron, CP3, or Durant will come to Houston is to play with Harden so you're left with trading harden for who? what? Giannis and take a step back? picks and tank/rebuild? just because Harden ain't someone who's not in the league anymore? or someone who's not confident he can fill harden's shoes as the rockets fans?
I’m making statistical comparison to players he wants to be compared to, currently and historically. It’s not that hard to understand? What I want are championships. Bride not the bridesmaid. If ultimately Harden isn’t 1a to do that I need him to accept being 1b or move him Not for a bag of potato chips. But Harden for Giannis? Sure I’d do that today no question. Giannis is 22 with higher upside. He also plays defense. There’s no way the Bucks do that though.
1) so if GSW had harden instead of curry in 2015 or 2017 instead of KD you don't think GSW have won? 2) so at what year does Giannis bring you a championship and what ideal superstars/roster around him and coaching staff to guarantee this? basically we're close to winning a championship with harden than with giannis but you'd rather take a risk and wait with giannis and btw no way the rockets does that as well
Rockets wouldn’t do Harden for Giannis either, that’s a step back Harden’s upside is the most dominant player in the NBA not named Lebron James
1. Not sure. Style and system are so different. Also with KD he wouldn’t be 1a. Also not sure how it’s relevant. Rockets aren’t close to having 4 top 25 players including DPOY and two guys arguably rated higher than our top guy right now. 2. Not sure. But If CP3 is healthy id have switching Harden and Giannis basically putting the Rockets in the same position as they currently are with CP3 healthy.
Cmon. You guys really don’t value defense at all? Giannis’ upside is higher than Hardens. But it’s an interesting debate. Start a poll.
1. so the rockets is the problem not harden 2. so big if cp3 is healthy and a bigger if cp3 is staying hey lets trade harden.. then lets hope that.. LOL
How do u get that I don’t value defense from my post? Harden still has a higher impact on the game than Giannis. The Bucks would’ve been lucky to win more than 45 games before acquiring Bledsoe. Would anybody say that if Harden was on the roster instead of Giannis? The Rockets wouldn’t do that trade.
1 doesn’t follow. I think you’re trying to make the argument that if you surround Harden with 4 other top 10-25 players they’ll have a chance?? Ok. Great. That’s not useful in any way. 2 is big whether it’s Harden or anyone. I’ll take Giannis over Harden... with CP3 or without. My point with CP3 is that already with Giannis at 22 I’d put that team to go as far. Because I think CP3 healthy seamlessly transitions into that MDA lead guard roll.
Because you said Harden could be a top 2 player at his upside. Which, in my view, isn’t possible. Since he is a negative on defense.
you know bball is a mix of physical and mental game right? guess what made/makes jordan/lebron/harden? what ultimately differentiates them?
1) would curry or harden carried the rocekts farther last yeat? if not then rockets is the problem not harden 2) what if without Cp3? so you're okay the rockets not making the playoffs while the bucks are in the east finals without making any add'l changes?
yeah, he could...his offense is that dominant and that impactful for all of Giannis’s greatness, his team was 5-7 before acquiring Bledsoe
he's close to lebron and jordan in terms of leading a team offensively than giannis start a poll if you want then if you win we show it to morey LOL
his savior is prolly as bad as a 3pt shooter as ariza. not a playmaker and worst ATO than harden we'll be 3-9 right now and having players only meetings if we had giannis while bucks will be 10-2
The question is t whether Harden is a problem or the problem. It’s can the Rockets win a championship with him as 1a. And what is the path to that? Hardens playoff history would have you questioning if he can and he current state of the league with GSW, and current state of the Rockets, their cap and their assets are all question marks that make it probabilistically low. Lol... Harden can’t get past a depleted and crap Spurs team in a playoffs where he craps the bed in the all important game... but send him to team up with Eric Bledsoe and Malcolm Brogdon and we should just pencil them in the ECF?
It’s that impactful... until it’s not .. he craps the bed... and contributes very little else. As we’ve seen, REPEATEDLY in the playoffs. 22 year old Giannis is already an MVP candidate, with better defense, on a team he lead to the playoffs already. He’s ahead of where Harden was with higher upside. He’s not carrying teams to 55 wins... but then Harden carries his squad to 41 wins the year before. Lots of variables in success. As I said... make a poll. Probably better to do it in /r/nba though. There are very few (any?) number one players in the history of the nba that have led their team to championship(s) that have been as bad as Harden defensively. I think he’s improved there...fortunately... but still too many lapses.
