Was just listening to the pre game show on the radio (790), and an interview they did with Luhnow earlier in the day. He was asked his thoughts on why he thought the Rangers were pushing back Darvish's next start and thus him not going on Thursday. Luhnow's answer: "He threw 125 pitches his last outing and that's a lot of pitches in April". Go figure Joe Joe and sealclubber. To say that a case couldn't even be made to watch DK's pitch count this early in the season is just flat out BS. Darvish has had issues with his arm as has DK all last season. I'm sure you can catch his comments on the podcast.
Keuchel is not Darvish and 116 is not 125. Same team that said Darvish moved back pitched Keuchel 8 next start. In addition, Keuchel was throwing almost as hard in 9th as he was in 1st. Darvish had lost 1-2 mph off his fastball in last two innings.
What am I missing here? A GM that clearly shows some concern with high pitchcounts in April for certain players had no issue with DK pitching a complete game. They didn't hold him back or have any issues with him pitching 8 innings the next game. What does that tell you?
Pitched Keuchel 8 next start? He didn't say anything about how many innings he pitched. He specifically mentioned pitch count for April. The whole point of this is that a case can be made for watching pitch count (especially in April and especially for pitchers who've had issues with their arms). Maybe you might disagree with doing this, but some people who have forgot more baseball then you'll ever know do think this way. "116 is not 125"? Yep BIG difference there!!!
"They didn't hold him back or have any issues with him pitching 8 innings the next game"? Well in the EXACT situation the following start they yanked him after 99 pitches. They didn't let him get up over 100 pitches like they did the previous start. So "what does that tell you"? That maybe....just maybe... they did want to a little cautious with him in April.
Maybe it isn't a huge difference, but hasn't Darvish had Tommy John? If I'm correct in thinking he has, then that's a huge difference between Darvish and DK. Yes, Dallas had some shoulder issues last year but that's not going to be monitored and micromanaged the same way as a pitcher who has had TJ in the past 2 years or so.
Not same situation. Keuchel pitched 116 pitches 5 days before versus 0. Keuchel's 8th was stressful versus Keuchel cruising. Basically, almost every condition was met for Keuchel throwing 116 pitches to be okay. The only thing throwing that many pitches did is that it made Hinch not want to do it two consecutive starts without an extra day of rest. Holding him to less than 100 pitches (what they try to do for McCullers, though, even he with a more violent delivery has gotten to 107) versus 116 would have had the same result with hin coming out in the 8th. Whats Astros do is more indicative of what they do about a specific player than what they say about another player on another team in a completely different scenario (multiple 100+ inning starts, more velocity).
Keuchel pitched on extra rest when he threw 116. He was taken out at 100 the very next start. I don't see much wrong with either of those two circumstances.
Nick I agree there isn't anything wrong with either of those situations (and how Hinch handled it). That said there also isn't anything wrong with being a little cautious in April with a pitcher who said his arm hurt all last season. That's what I've said all along, and there's a few on here who took this as complaining.
Sure... if you simply look at actual pitch counts and make all decisions on that in a vaccume, there isn't much to debate. However, they probably tend to look not just at pitch counts, but how much duress and pressure the pitcher had to face during the game. The Indians game featured plenty of double plays and very limited on base action. kuechel never really struggled within any part of the game (no overly long innings, no constant throws to first to try and hold runners, etc.). In the end, his extra rest probably gave him enough endurance to finish that game off. Likewise, having pitched a full game the previous start influenced when they decided to take him out on Sunday... which was also a game with very little internal struggling.
Generally agree. Only very minor quibble is that I'd say pitch count is only one factor and it by itself in a vacuum is not enough to pull a pitcher (except in extreme cases and rookies....116 is not extreme). The shoulder injury and it being April don't bother me as he's pitched well (results and mechanics), had been stretched out, and not over-taxed for the month.
Darvish pitched 113 times in the start prior to throwing 125. 113 is closer to 116. I don't understand why you continue to make a big deal about this. Chris Sale is averaging 107 pitches per start. Dallas Keuchel is averaging 99. Trust me, they are monitoring Dallas' pitch count. They like most teams look at around 100 pitches, with the occasional 120-range thrown in.
I'm not making a big deal out of it. I shared a viewpoint that many in baseball agree with, and by making that observation a few on here (and they know who they are) took that as whining. I certainly understand that it's just not about pitch count and that there are other variables involved. Two that I did point out are that DK's arm hurt all last season and that it was still April. Yes he's not Darvish (and he's not coming off TJ surgery but he was hurting ALL last yr according to DK himself), and he's our best pitcher and they better damn well be keeping a close eye on him as being in first place at the end of April isn't the goal. If it's no big deal what his pitch count is per start in APRIL why didn't they let him go further on opening day (7IP/0 r/85 pitches), or in his 2nd outing (7IP/1r/93 pitches) or 4th start (7IP/1r/99 pitches)? I mean he was cruising along and they could have very easily got another inning (or two) out of him since it's no big deal or concern to have him throw 116+ per outing in April. Or maybe they realize it's a long freakin season and it might be wise to pace him (especially right out of the shoot). I didn't make this a big deal I just shared how I would have handled that specific outing if I was Hinch and just as practically every single person on this site does with numerous other situations and what they would be doing. With that said I'm done talking about this.
You started a thread about it. 5 days after it happened. Continuing to beat a dead horse. Nobody here has said pitch counts don't matter. You keep pretending like that people are. People are saying it isn't a big deal to throw the extra pitches on an occasional basis. Especially to garner your star pitcher a personal achievement because it makes them happy, something that matters.