Khizr Khan speech at DNC

Speaking of "countries compromised by terrorism".

I hope they moved here before '79.

 

And get put on a watch list because you visited a country where all it's citizens are banned.

Makes a ton of sense

 

Except when your candidate puts Russia and Putin first.

 

Could be true. Last year a Turkish guy that sold my family on a family plan phone deal at the local Costco, said that he though Islam was the worst religion that should be exterminated. We bought the plan because it was decent at the time. But the story goes 'self hating' morons can be scary.

 

If you're from the middle east and you hate Islam then you're self hater? LOL you can't be this stupid, can you?

 

You know the whole point of a debate forum is to debate.

So far I see that this thread is 90% name calling.

I don't frankly care about Trump (while I have evidence to detest Hilary on a very human level).

My suggestion is this: Debate the specifics.

If the policy is racist...How and why? What is racism, and are there differences in our moral stances, and our valuing of reason over emotion, that makes the acts of deportation and close-door policy racist to some people while not to others?

Is it even feasible?

Calling eachother stupid and libretards don't achieve anything imo, they just make you feel important...

 

Khan gave Trump a civics lesson tonight. Trump routinely speaks against American ideals, the United States constitution, international law, and Khan who is new to the nation knows more about our nation's traditional ideals, and absolutely shamed trump.

He pulled out the constitution and flashed it in Trump's face. He called out Trump and the fact that Trump sacrificed nothing.

Probably the most important speech of the night.

 

But you have to remember that the constitution doesn't protect people that don't live in the United States

I have to hand it to the DNC, they tried to hit every emotional nerve and succeeded.

 

I agree. I'll start. It's a religious test in a country where freedom of religion is a Constitutional right. Trump is WICKED smart though. He's changed it from a religious test to a geographical test. Like preventing Israelis from coming to the US isn't a ban on Jews, it's a ban on "Israelis". It's so clever.

Trump's VP pick agrees with me.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Calls to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. are offensive and unconstitutional.</p>&mdash; Governor Mike Pence (@GovPenceIN) <a href="https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433">December 8, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

I'm not sure what that has to do Khan.

Anyway you are correct it doesn't, but certainly American values and principles do.

After all the Declaration of Independence says that all men are endowed by their creator with unalienable rights. It says that all men are endowed with those rights, not just American men.

Now the constitution may not apply to them as letter of law but we know that our nation's values and principles extends beyond just that.

 

Thank you.

It's interesting. You're right in the sense that banning a country whose people predominantly practices a certain religion equals banning a large segment of that religion. In that sense it is unconstitutional. I agree.

That said. If all one needs to enter a country is a religion, then wouldn't that make the country an open border one? (btw, how do you feel about such a country if it exists?) I think that simply fitting with one part of the constitution is not virtue enough for you to be a good fit in the US.

To elaborate on that point. There are interesting statistics that place Islamic followers of middle eastern ethnicity, which I will call Muslims, at a radical disagreement with Western values INCLUDING those of the constitution.

https://carm.org/islamic-muslim-statistics-on-violence-rape-terror-sharia-isis-welfare

(The writer is biased, but most of the sources look valid on the whole)

Let's pick out a few.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

America
America, 58% of Muslims say criticism of Islam or Muhammad not protected under free speech, "Wenzel Strategies (2012): 58% of Muslim-Americans believe criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech under the First Amendment. 45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges (38% said they should not). 12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death. 43% of Muslim-Americans believe people of other faiths have no right to evangelize Muslims. 32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land."

(http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/20...t-of-us-muslims-reject-freedom-of-expression; http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/10/poll-nearly-half-of-us-muslims-believe.html)

Britain,
62% of British Muslims deny free speech, "NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech; Only 3% adopt a “consistently pro-freedom of speech line”

(http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06;
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY)

Al Jazeera poll, 81% of respondents approved of ISIS


Britain, 1.5 Million Brits support ISIS, "ICM (Mirror) Poll 2015: 1.5 Million British Muslims support the Islamic State, about half the total population.(http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslim-leader-isis-supporting-brits-disenfranchised-6018357)

Netherlands, 50-70% of Muslim asylum seekers permanently on welfare, "Seven out of ten Somalians, who were in the past asylum seekers, still receive social welfare, and half of those who have Syrian, Iraqi or Eritrean nationality live off welfare"

(https://muslimstatistics.wordpress....-70-of-former-asylum-seekers-live-on-welfare/)

25% of US Muslims say violance against the US is justified. "The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015) 25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the “global Jihad (64% disagree)." (http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf)

----------------------------------------------------------

So firstly there is the support for non-freedom of speech.

Then there is the high support for ISIS- An organisation that is against at least one constitutional right and against most accepted western deals such as gender equality.

Aside from the lack of women's rights, hatred against non-Muslim person are high in Muslim polls.

You made the arguement for Jewish people at the beginning. I argue that if there is indeed this high a rate of anti-Western values in Israel, compounded by the existence of a radical Jewish terrorism that commit crimes on a weekly basis against people of other backgrounds, and who is significantly supported by Jews is many countries...That one should consider adopting a more strict set of criteria when it comes to immigration and refugees.

 

You are radicalized.

 

What exactly has hillary sacraficed?

 

I'm not saying anyone should be allowed in this country based on religion. I'm saying you can't deny someone admittance simply based on religion. That someone is Muslim doesn't mean they're a terrorist any more than someone being Catholic makes them a pedophile or a being a Mormon makes them a polygamist or whatever else. There have to be more factors at play to deny admittance than simply religion.

Western values are sort of a nebulous thing and who decides that? Is abortion a western value? Not according to a lot of people. Is multi-culturalism a western value? Not according to some very nasty people on this board. France doesn't allow hate speech but we do in America for example. France bans the Muslim head scarf in public but we don't care in America.

An argument on values is a different one than an argument based on law. Anyone can believe whatever extreme things they want in this country and as long as they don't act on it, it's not illegal. We don't have thought crimes.

However, the assimilation of immigrants to American principles and values is a very important issue but it doesn't need to be a racist, xenophobic thing. I see polls where an alarming number of Americans don't believe in evolution and believe the story of Noah's Ark really happened. So I think all of us would be surprised what people will say in polls.

I don't know what percentage of Muslims in America are first or second generation immigrants. Seems to be a more recent phenomenon, basically the last 40 years since the fall of Afghanistan and Iran's turn to the Ayatollah. I don't think immigrants necessarily come here with our values built in but they learn and appreciate their importance over time. I think we integrate people a lot better in the United States than they do that in parts of Europe for whatever reason. Perhaps things like banning Muslim head coverings has the intent of forcing integration and protecting women but it inadvertently has the effect of making people feel targeted because of their religion. I pass by people with full body beekeeper suits in the mall and I cringe a bit inside because I think it's silly but I understand it's their tradition or whatever and their right to do as they please and life goes on.

To this point... Israel, a religious state, is in illegal occupation of land, bulldozes Palestinian homes, builds illegal settlements on Palestinian land, placed an illegal embargo, and launched various invasions of Lebanon. Israelis are also famous for their assassinations, renditions, and torture. Unfortunately, Bush followed Israel's lead on these things after 9/11. Those aren't 21st century American values. So really, it's just where you want to draw the line.

 

Thanks! This is an awesome plan by Trump. Let's make America kick A to the mutherf'in T, G! And it's only gonna take 3 days! USA USA!

Yeh, Mexico sends its gangs to exploit us Bad! No! After the wall, u'll be smoking ur marihuana with a salsa chip, Mexicans. Arrivederci!!

MSM go to hell! Media I hate u

A lot

 

Legend, I feel for your pain and probably that of your immediate family and friends, but talking about falling for propaganda , trickle down econ and simplistic hatred of immigrants and government, much less the sales job of strongman/billionaire will not help y'all.

 

Can you at least agree that Trump did the same by promising everything to virtually everyone-- including essentially promising that on day 1 he can prevent mass shootings by deranged lone wolves while allowing unlimited access to assault weapons.

Hopefully you did at least question his ability to do that.

Did you have any doubt about his tickle down on streroids i.e more tax breaks for billionaires like him while eliminating the minimum wage so that there will finally be an unleashing of the flow downwards?

BTW I do realize that if iirc he did in his rambling speech of promises to everyone also promised to tax the wealthy more and create higher wages for everyone too.

 

Islam is awful

 

What did you think about Khan's speech?