read what i was responding to....... I am comparing this to the battle of the blackwater. Blackwater had lots of interesting twists in the battle . The hound leaving, the sucess/failure of the wildfire, Tyrion leading the men out to battle, the storyline of Cersei almost killing herself and her kid, The Tyrells showing up with Tywin. This battle had no twists. Everyone knew Littlefinger was coming and that it would be when the fight looked dire. I enjoyed the battle of the blackwater more for that reason. This battle was well directed and choreographed, just not really well written.
Ramsey was a great villain. The actor they had was so good at being bad. Surprised Jon Snow was able to take him down so easily. His death was too fast. He deserves worse. It seems like they haven't killed a main character in a long time.
Ramsey was a punk. He was not a good fighter. Preyed on weak, used his Bolton name to get everything (even as a b*stard). That's why he knew he couldn't beat Jon Snow in one on one combat.
Someone kill Dany already. If she ends up taking a bunch of dragons and boats to the Seven Kingdoms and takes over I am going to be so annoyed.
I read it was this battle. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CQNCGqfjaBc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Who knows.
I wouldn't have been surprised personally either way. I thought he would live because "the Lord of Light has plans for you, etc..." conversation he had with the Red Witch.
Ian Whyte, played The Mountain is season 2 ( the lame one) the White Walker Sam sees at the end, and he also plays Wun Wun. Spoiler for size: Spoiler
I think if everyone is being honest then that is the right answer. GRRM has killed off so many main character by this point that he has more than proven it could happen to anyone.
You know when Ramsay chickened out from combat to the death that he wanted to backstab Jon. He never got the chance..... if the cavalry never came, you would never know
And resurrected him this season. And this battle was Snow's first major encounter since coming back to life. Jon, along with Tyrion and Danerys, is one the central characters to the story. I don't for a moment buy him dying for good before his parentage factors into both the story and his actions (same reason I didn't buy him being dead for good the first go round). I see his blood and resurrection as thick-plated plot armor at the level of Danerys' dragons. She ain't going anywhere until she gets those dragons into the great battle. And Snow's parentage matters more with a living Jon Snow than a dead one. No lie necessary. To kill Snow before he commits another great deed in the service of winning the Great War would surprise me.
I don't think the entire episode was predictable like some are saying, but no...it never once crossed my mind that Jon would die. No chance he'd die, get brought back to life, then die again all in the span of a season.
I liked a number of things... The sequences for the battles rocked and cinematic effort was 10/10 From a writing stand point, it was a 3/10... The whole Jon and Sansa, male v female stuff was obvious pandering for a "I told you so" moment. So people can say "yes girls can sure win them some battles!" Oh you men and your silly ideas of fighting a stupid unwinnable battle. But it didn't make sense as a story. Jon somehow abandons his strategy completely? I don't believe it. Also why does Sansa want to be a part of planning things, but fails to mention Little Finger's huge numbers Vale forces the entire time? This information would have saved a lot of lives, helped achieve a victory, and they could have used this superior force to flank a lot earlier. Instead we are left with the riders of Rohan, which yes, it was predictable AF. People aren't upset something good happened, it's that it was done in the most obvious way. If Little Finger had come in on his own without any of this secret Sansa story line, it would have been way cooler. But because they audience was pandering to make as "women smart men stupid" story beat, we were left with an underwhelming story instead. Spoiler <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mE328QhF-VA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Also how does Ramsey not know about such a huge force nearby? Wouldn't a scout have noticed or a Raven with such key news have made it to him?
I don't understand why so many are confused about this and think Jon Snow is 'stupid'?? I mean, how crazy is it to believe that someone would lose their rationality and reasoning skills when their little brother just got murdered literally right in front of them? Jon isn't 'dumb' for charging ahead. He just decided "**** it!". You don't think Jon deep down inside knew Ramsey was baiting him? Jon is an emotional character but he isn't bloody r****ded. He knew full well that Ramsey was baiting him. He just didn't give a ****. He wanted to desperately save his brother. That is within character of someone who deeply loves his family.
I'm with you on that. Ramsay played Jon like a fiddle, so it's understandable that he lost his cool. But it does make Jon look like a wanker.
Not to mention, the fact that Ramsey not only killed his "brother" by toying with him but also did terrible things to his "sister". Also, the Boltons were the ones to completely betray Robb and Catlyn several months/years ago. It is totally within Jon's character to act out of revenge especially after babysitting the Night's watch while his family is torn to shreds all around him and he is obligated not to do anything. I think deep down, all of the anger and resentment he felt for having to sit on the sidelines, so to say, as part of the Night's Watch got to him and it all came out in that moment in the name of his father and the Stark name. Foolish yes, but that tends to happen when honor, loyalty, and family are a person's greatest strength but also their greatest weakness.
Ramsay was fighting when Yara trying to rescue Theon. Jon Snow is a poor battle commander. He got 1000s slaughtered because he couldn't think about anyone, but his brother.
If he put up a great fight though, I'd be the one complaining. It makes sense that he can be a decent field commander given his upbringing as a lord in a combative house. It also would make sense that he's good with a bow and even passing fair with a sword. But, it does not make sense that he would be a great swordsman that can compare with someone like Snow who has been a professional soldier for a while now. It'd stretch credulity to have him hold his own in a showdown. (Not to mention to have all those soldiers stand there and not intervene when the commander's life would be in danger. It was annoying enough to see bowmen stand there slack-jawed as Ramsay shoots arrows at Jon when they could have easily shot him down.) Well, Jon charges out alone without the army and they hold the line like they are supposed to. It's Tormund I think that orders the charge. And, honestly, it would be unsurprising that an army of irregulars like the wildlings would not have the discipline to hold the line and stick to the plan, though they didn't allude to that angle in the show. I think it would have been better if they had, but whatever.
No, Daavos orders the charge. He says, "follow your commander!" and then you see Tormund give kind of a disappointed face and order the wildlings to follow. Anyway, Jon charging after Rickon was not stupid. I get that. He wasn't throwing away his army, he was risking his own life. That's an honorable decision. He wanted to save his brother, a child. The stupid part is that once Rickon is dead, he sits their fuming for a moment deciding what to do. Instead of picking up the body he charges on horse into the Bolton army. Before he does you see either Daavos or Tormund say "don't do it" because they know what will happen. He loses his temper and it is that action that gets his army slaughtered. Not trying to save Rickon, but foolishly riding alone head on at the Bolton army.
I didn't interpret Jon's move as being a bad commander, although good points are being made. I viewed it as Jon being the kind of commander that will battle on the front lines (unlike Ramsay who turned down hand-to-hand combat, shot a man in the back, kept his distance during the battle, then fled when his nuts were on the dresser) and die for his men. The kind of commander that wins the support of others. Just as he did with the Night's Watch.
