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How did altuve turn into barry bonds?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Air Langhi, May 5, 2016.

  1. conquistador#11

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  2. Fulgore

    Fulgore Member

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    Hard to say for me because the Kent blast didn't clinch anything.
     
  3. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Winning a NLDS series? C'mon... they were old hats at that by 2005 ;).

    Oh, its certainly up there. And Lance's 2005 HR in game 5 is way up there too (gets forgotten so easily, since that was the Brad Lidge/Pujols game)... and that would have helped them clinch the series as well.

    But the 2004 Kent HR, that got them within 1 game of the pennant, was just one of those awesome baseball moments that had all the elements come together at the right time... bottom of 9th, their closer on the mound, a very well-pitched game, primetime national TV audience, Cardinals players/coaches complaining about MMP crowd noise with roof closed.... and the pandemonium that ensued after the HR (along with the suspense leading up to it) outweighed the Burke one.

    And as far as moments go, unfortunately the Burke HR had a lot going against it... a long/dragging game going 18 innings that featured countless wasted scoring opportunities for both teams, along with poor pitching on both sides for the first 9 innings. Plus, Burke was a very unlikely candidate to deliver that sort of shot. It also happened the very next year... so as of the time Kent hit his, it immediately vaulted to the top of the list... and would take a pennant-clinching or WS clinching HR to top.
     
  4. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    Through 700 career games

    #Astros Jose Altuve
    870 hits & .306/.346/.425

    #Reds Pete Rose
    835 hits & .296/.352/.412

    Altuve 104 days younger.
     
  5. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    You mean Babe Ruth
     
  6. msn

    msn Member

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    First thing that crossed my mind when I read that post. Thank you.

    Honorable mention: Billy Hatcher, 1986. :(
     
  7. K-Low_4_Prez

    K-Low_4_Prez Member

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    The man is a hitting machine... I think he has shattered the scouts doubts about smaller players.
     
  8. PhiSlammaJamma

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    First, amazing numbers. Could be a 50-50 club member or 40-40.

    All that said, the rumors will start flying. Just look at the club members...

    1988
    José Canseco
    Oakland Athletics 42 40

    1996
    Barry Bonds
    San Francisco Giants 42 40

    1998
    Alex Rodriguez
    Seattle Mariners 42 46

    2006
    Alfonso Soriano
    Washington Nationals 46 41
     
  9. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Now, what do I believe.

    Does he swing the bat like twig: A common trait among users. I would say the answer is yes. He does. Part of that can be attributed to aggression. So I'm not sold it's an end result of use. But if you asked me does he manhandle a bat I would probably say yes.

    Is there motive at 16 years old: Yes. He's from Venezuela and many ball players from Venezuela have used, been caught, and may still be using. Players are dirt poor. It's an easy road to use. Altuve wasn't even given a chance due to his height at 5'5. Not even a look. He would have nothing to loose, much to gain, and he would easily be able to justify using. Why not.

    Statistical evidence until now: None really. He has never really demonstrated any power until now. However, it is a classic sign to have a one year boost in power. Which is exactly what is happening.

    Does he physically look like user: No. He doesn't have a users physique. He is 5'5 and a 175 pounds. There has been no sudden body transformation. No puffy face or chest. No extended belly.

    Is there motivation to use this year: Not really. He is making good money. Why risk it all now. $12.5 million guaranteed with a $750,000 bonus, $6 million club option for a fifth year, $6.5 million club option for a sixth year. Things are going well.

    Why now: He may indeed have connections and access he did not have before. The Atros have several international players, and international players have traditionally been well connected to steroid use. Many major leaguers did not start using until they met other major leaguers who were using... nearly 5 years into their pro ball career. So there is precedent for this being the right timing for starting to use. Altuve is in year 6.

    My Conclusion: No. I don't think he used steroids to get into the league due to a lack of power exhibited up until now. And as to starting this year, there is too much to risk. There is simply to much to lose, plus he had not exhibited a physical transformation, but has exhibited additional plate discipline. So no. Think suspicion is reasonable, but not evidenced.
     
  10. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Barry Bonds was a multiple time MVP, best player in the game and he decided to start using. So I think the too much to lose argument doesn't work. I don't think Altuve is on roids, at least he doesn't look like it.
     
  11. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    Bonds may have used early.

    Steroids were prevalent in the 80's.

    When he got slower he may have taken the bulking dose to change his game.
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Are their "bulking" anabolic steroids vs. non-bulking anabolic steroids?

    They're all essentially derivatives of testosterone... and they're all going to have similar effects on the body.

    Its when guys lose a step, see a natural regression in production... but allofasudden have an uptick at an advanced age, and start producing career numbers... that everybody should be justifiably suspicious. Bonds had that when he left the Pirates for SF... was still very very good, but was no longer the best in the game.

    Altuve has yet to have a regression... this is still a very young player who's likely yet to hit his peak. Where will it stop? who knows... perhaps this will be his career year... but still not enough to suggest this is all enhanced development.
     
  13. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    <blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="QwaOcNC"><a href="//imgur.com/QwaOcNC">View post on imgur.com</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  14. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">People talk about how Correa could be best Astro ever when career done. Why not Altuve? <a href="https://t.co/zVivY1JzI7">pic.twitter.com/zVivY1JzI7</a></p>&mdash; Allen H (@AllenH83) <a href="https://twitter.com/AllenH83/status/729997799807295488">May 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  15. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    haha nice, apologies for the double post!
     
  16. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    Kents home run is the right answer. I have been to many, if not most of the playoff games in MMP, and plenty in the Dome. The Kent homerun produced the most bedlam I have ever witnessed in an Astros game. You are talking about people randomly high fiving strangers, yelling their heads off, even the corporate types were on their feet. We are talking about the scene in the bar in the movie Major League.

    I was there for the Burke home run. Not close in importance or drama. The marathon game dragged on and was necessitated by garner stupidly pulling Bergman earlier in the game (IIRC).
     
  17. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    And lost in all that translation via Burke game was the unlikeliest of heroes.

    Brad Ausmus Game 4 homerun down one in the ninth where he hit the ball a solid 6 inches above the yellow line.

    That is right up there with Kent's game winner.

    Carlos Correa looked like he was really going to supplant himself as an Astros playoff legend along with Colby Rasmus in the Royals series.
     
  18. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Then you obviously weren't there for game 5 of the '05 NLCS - because Berkman's home run that night was the craziest/loudest I've ever seen a stadium... and I was at the Oiler/Dolphin MNF game in 1978, as well as game 4 of the '80 NLCS. I mean, I have experienced max craziness - but Berkman's home run... I've never seen a happier collection of humans.
     
  19. Von Rafer

    Von Rafer Member

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    Brad Lidge faints

    Albert Pujols smiles

    [​IMG]
     
  20. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    This was to tie the game that went 18 innings. This is my favorite HR in Astros history...I think there were 2 outs. And Brad freaking Ausmus hits one out to left center that barely clears the line. Seemed so ridiculously improbable....still does looking back on it.
     

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