Harden - and how to build a championship team around him

Call me crazy but Harden needs to play the PG role and we need a SG. If not, it will always be 4 vs. 5 because a PG beside Harden is useless.

 

This is a myth. When has this ever been proven?

 

ahh, the eye test!

The numbers dont back it up tho

 

Harden will have an even harder time guarding opposing PGs.

He's pretty much playing PG anyway.

Or he was. I've noticed Bev brings up the ball a lot more often lately

 

You can't build around a score only ball dominant player who wont play defense IMO. I'm only holding out hope that Durant comes and Harden becomes a #2 option. If that doesn't happen i wish we could trade him for the #1 pick. Ben Simmons is perfect for today's NBA.

Say a coach like Thibs turns Harden into an okay defender that at least gives effort, there's not a single team in NBA history i can think of that won with a Harden like player as their star.

James Harden is currently #31 for career USG% and he was a bench player his first 3 years. Pretty eye opening.

Of the players ahead of him in USG% that are somewhat similar in terms of scoring first you've got Rip Hamilton, Paul Pierce, Stackhouse, Walter Davis, Vince Carter, Arenas, Bernard King, Glenn Robinson, Mark Aguirre, World B Free, TMac, Nique, KD, Gervin, Westbrook, Melo, Iverson and i guess you can say Kobe and Dwade but they were both great all around and at D.

Of that group Rip and Pierce and Aguirre won a title while still having high USG.
-Aguirre was a loser with Dallas his whole career and won as a 6th man scorer. Harden is not coming off the bench.

-Pierce was a loser with the Celtics his whole career up until KG and Allen joined him. That's like joining Harden with Anthony Davis and Klay Thompson. Not happening.

-RIP was surrounded by talent from top to bottom and he was never an attack the basket,ball dominant player. But, of the other options this might be the most realistic one. The 04 Pistons model.

Now..i doubt Morey could find so many gems as Dumars did. Most of those guys were nobodies their whole career til they joined together. Billups bounced around several teams averaging 27 mpg his firs 5 years before joining the Pistons a a full time starter. Ben Wallace was an undrafted guy who averaged 20mpg his first 4 years before joining his 3rd team-the Pistons and becoming a starter. Sheed was a basket case who played for 3 teams before being traded to Detroit. Very talented scorer, but just nuts. Tayshaun, an extremely long defender who only played 10mpg as a rookie before jumping up to 30+ as a starter the next year when they won the title. Rip Hamilton averaged 16ppg on 43% his first 3 years before joining Det.

So yeah, no way we just get lucky and find all of these players. Looking at players that currently fit those players style, here is my realistic attempt:

PG: Conley (Billups)
SG:Harden (RIP)
SF:Ariza (Prince)
PF:Morris? (Sheed)
C:Howard (Ben)

Head Coach: Tom Thibodeau (Larry Brown)

That's a playoff team, but no way are they better than GS or SA. That is also hoping Dwight can be DPOTY material again and that Morris can be an inside outside threat averaging 20ppg. He sure fits the crazy part of Sheed which i think every team needs a little crazy. RIP was at 25 USG% when they won. Is Harden willing to change his game up? Run around screens and let Conley direct the O? Harden of course will go back to relentlessly attacking the basket with the bench unit.

Speaking of bench:

PG: Bev (L.Hunter)
SG: Lawson (Mike James)
SF: Marvin Williams? (C.Williamson)
PF: DMO (Okur)
C: Cappela (E.Campbell)

I just don't think it works because Harden is who he is and Dwight will never again be DPOTY contention.

I say you pray every night for Kevin Durant. If that is a no go and because i know we'll never trade Harden, i say F IT and just let Harden have a great career individually playing on fun but non contending teams. Make it fun for the fans. A fast break 10 seconds or less small ball offense with 3 point shooters at every position regardless if they can defend or not. I'm sure Les Alexander is cool with it as long as it's a fun product and he always wanted to play like the Nash Suns.

 

Show me the numbers you've posted.

 

Well Magic didn't defend PG's. They had Byron Scott who was a PG sized guy at the 2. Coop could also defend 3 positions.

I think you can play Harden at point, with a Courtney Lee playing SG and defending PGs with Ariza picking up PGs as well.

 

Or you could just play Lee at PG...

 

I don't think we will be that much worse defensively when we lose Howard. Just need to get another decent big body. Let Capela start and take his lumps.

 

how to build a team aorund harden
step 1 - get a first option
step 2 - move harden to 2nd option
step 3 - hope half of the 13 scrubs on your team magically turn into role players
step 4 - win b2b rings

 

Theoretically Lawson + Harden should work. Lawson can in fact create his own shot but its generally a mid range jumper. I think with this Houston team thats actually a good weapon to have but not sure if Morey has told him to cut it down from his game? I think he was low on confidence coming into the season and being pulled from the starting lineup has affected him more and Harden completely ignores him. All he has to do off ball is come off a pick and the defence will bend to stop him getting his shots, only thing stopping this is Lawsons lack of confidence and Hardens selfishness. defintely enough ball to go around

 

I did not claim that it was Harden's fault. I just pointed out that the poster just kept repeating a fact that everybody already knew as if that was enough reason to absolve Harden.

Yes, we all know Lawson is bad. Tell us something we don't know, like, why did he suddenly become bad?

You guys are quick to jump to Harden's defense.

 

Step 1: build a championship team.
Step 2: (optional) include James Harden

 

you all talk like steph curry is an elite super defender. we just need better defense with harden. we have a glaring hole at the PF spot. and we need a pure shooter like korver with harden. harden is the PG, ever since he's highschool, he's been the PG. he lacks defensive effort because he spends all his energy being an unstoppable scorer 1 on 1. all he needs is a better fit team. he can beat the spurs by himself as evident during playoffs, OKC vs Spurs. spurs can stop durant/wb, but can stop PG harden. we need a PF like serge ibaka

 

Sounds about right.

 

2015-16 Real Plus-Minus - Centers
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
10 Dwight Howard HOU 44 32.3 0.36 3.84 4.20 5.94

2014-15 Real Plus-Minus - Centers
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
18 Dwight Howard HOU 41 29.8 -0.12 2.08 1.96 3.32

2015 Defensive Box Plus/Minus- 1.5
2014 Defensive Box Plus/Minus- 1.2

His win shares are up, his ts% is up, his turnovers are down, his ortg is up. Block and steal percentages are up. Rebound percentage is up.

Now his drtg is down, though I attribute that more to team woes.

I wouldn't just take one stat as the be all, but the fact that he is better in so many areas to me means he's not declining.

 

ingenious

 

Ok, fair enough. Can you show me any team that actually plays that way?