ESPN rankings are meaningless in our quest to win a championship. They're practically meaningless anyways.
Here's the thing that nobody wants to even recognize. Yes... in a Vacuum you do not look at Terrence Jones and say THAT is a starting PF on a championship team. But that's not the point. The Rockets are a HOPEFUL championship contending team this year that has no better options than to have to rely on Terrence Jones as either the starter or role playing backup. Just as Im sure the 2012 Miami Heat realized that there were better PG's in the league than Mario Chalmers, the Rockets realize there are better PF's than Terrence Jones. That's just not the point though. The Rockets have NO avenue for upgrading right now. So alot of guys & girls here are just gonna have to deal with him, and b**** about him for most likely this entire year. You, as an insider, see him getting dealt. Great. That means that you have intel that the Rockets hit the jackpot with Harrell as one of the greatest rookies the game has ever seen, and that means you have intel that D-Mo's injury was not legit, and has been lied about in order to drive down his trade value or some scandal like that. I like your posts as they are entertaining and usually come from a place of relevance but I just don't see it yet until certain questions are answered. We can only hope that the Rockets LUCK into a situation where Terrence Jones is shopped in a trade. Cause right now, I see a situation where he's a necessity not cause he's the perfect PF... but because the Rockets likely cannot do any better this year and they have to deal with what they have rather than what they want. -Derrick Fisher is not a starter caliber PG on a championship team -Luc Longley is not a starting caliber C on a championship level team -Chucky Brown is not a starting caliber PF on a championship level team -JJ Barrea is not a starting caliber PG on a championship level team -Francisco Elson is not a starter caliber C on a championship level team But guess what.... all of those players started games in finals games for teams that ultimately won a title. Sometimes the best you got at a weak position is the best you can get. Morey is by all means a great GM but he's not a miracle worker. He can't undue the CBA and make up his own rules. If he finds a way to upgrade every spot to an all-star at 5 positions than great, but based on what I know from the CBA and especially the hard cap rules, I have to think that Terrence Jones, Donatas, and the young rook might be the best we can do this year.
I don't like Tjones a whole lot but I hope he shuts everyone up this season. I'm hoping that the problem we have isn't "what **** value can we scrap from Tjones/DMo" but rather "crap we can't afford both these PF's who played well this season". The season can't come soon enough.
As proof that ESPN rankings are meaningless, they've got D'Angelo Russell ranked at #109, ahead of Terrence. And that's not possible according to some poster's logic here. No way can a rookie that hasn't played a single minute be better than a 3-year vet, right?
Unless you have some intel that says DMo isn't likely to recover, DMo's the starter as he has been since January. There has not been any indication that he's still fighting for a spot in rotation. He might lose his starter spot, but doubt he drops out of rotation unless he just isn't healthy. Rockets have shown they are ready to go to war with this roster so I assume Rockets aren't too worried. On the backup, Jones has to prove he's still better than challengers for PT. I'm not saying he won't, but Rockets a lot of evidence he's got to fight for minutes. Clutch, who appears to have special intel, was surprised to see Jones still on roster. McHale has talked about getting Ariza more practice at 4 and that Ariza's minutes at 4 were limited last year due to not getting enough practice at it (I've assumed it was the wing depth). Rockets gave up a ton of opportunity cost (including a guy who started over Jones last year EDIT: in WCF) for Harrell. More than a normal 2nd round pick. Treating Harrell as just another 2nd round pick is just as bad as assuming he will be better than than Jones. I'm not saying Harrell will likely be great. I'm saying Rockets are treating him as if he's needed which to me equals he's fighting for PT. Rockets seem happy enough with Capela that they are considering resting Howard on B2Bs. Capela is an option for PF minutes. I'm not a big Jones fan, but I'm not _hollic either. Here's to hoping Jones improves and makes me look like an idiot.
So if Clutch says he's surprised Terrence is still on the roster that's ok. Nobody jumps on that. But if I say he's not a rotation player on a championship team then I'm off the deep end. LOL You guys are hilarious.
Sure did. He's a good guy. And knows more about basketball than you do. That's why he said he's surprised Terrence is still on the roster. And you think Terrence should be starting.
I have never said TJ should be starting. In fact I have always said DMO is the better player. My only comment with regards to starting was that DMO would be more valuable off the bench since he can create his own offense. DMO's offensive skillset will not be fully utilized with Harden, Lawson and Dwight all starting. TJ's rebounds and garbage work as you call it will be a better fit with that starting unit. TJ has a place in the NBA. He will not be out of the league in 3-4 years like you have repeatedly said. Yes and Clutch knows more about basketball than I do and much more about basketball than you do. Waiving TJ to pick up Reggie Evans or whatever that asinine crap was LOL
Don't forget _asketballholic made the call that Clint Capella was a pile of poo the night the rockets drafted him and now he's saying he's the key for the team :grin:. Also he said he wouldn't trade DMO for LaMarcus Aldridge, but why the hell did Morey go after Aldridge this off season LOL. Take whatever he says with a grain a salt.
Thinking that D-Mo should be the starter (rightfully so), and setting expectations that there could be a scenario where Jones is either starting or playing big minutes are two different things. I even said earlier "Starter or Rotation bench player". I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again... of course I think D-Mo is the more dynamic player, and if I had to choose, yes of course its D-Mo. I'm a huge fan, and stuck up for him when idiots on here wanted to trade him back in November of 2013.. That being said, its not a either or choice IMO right now. I like the idea of both if possible until Jones is upgraded. Even then the insurance he gives you vs. what he gets you in a trade is probably still in favor of keeping him. Is it foolish to think of Harrell as a "Typical 2nd round pick rookie".... maybe if he was playing on the Sixers, but the Rockets history with even 1st round picks shows pretty likely that unless he does something as great as Chandler Parsons to EARN minutes (he earned it by simply defending better by the way), then it would be substantially great for the organization. History shows though that its more likely a rookie is going to spend some time in the D-League in year 1, and McHale would typically rather go small than play raw bigs. 2nd half of the season though, its typically common for guys like Capela, D-Mo, 2Pat, etc. to get enough seasoning to get minutes later in the season & even post season. Long story short, even if its just the start of the regular season it is still very important for THIS TEAM THIS YEAR as seeding will be super important. Until we have evidence that Harrell has beaten out Jones as the better player for this team, and D-Mo is back healthy there is no way you will convince me that we are secure enough to trade away a major rotation player. Is that not fair, or what am I missing here??? Why am I the crazy one here for wanting that assurance when this year is so freaking important? ................ As for Clutch being surprised Jones is still on the roster? Wasn't that said before Josh Smith joined the Clippers and way before we knew the Rockets being hard capped? Kind of different scenario now with virtually no way of replacing even a competent rotation player at under 2 mil a year in matching his salary in trades or hardly worth dumping picks to trade for a player that might not even upgrade the team. Maybe Clutch still feels that way and is totally comfortable with our big man rotation which if the season started today without Jones would be Dwight, Capela, and .... Jeremy Tyler... Dekker.... Ariza.... I know Harrell and D-Mo will get healthy again, hopefully soon, but I just know how this team is with injuries and having even three PF's makes sense in a normal year much less one where your main PF is coming off of back surgery and just started running again. Running on a treadmill and playing 82 full court NBA games are way different.
He also said the Rockets should trade D-Mo back in November of 2013 because "his trade value was plunging". Nobody has to listen to me if they do not want to, but if you buy into that guys bull crap then I just have no hope for humanity anymore. Then again, Donald Trump might very well be our next president so we got that going for us too.
While that may be true, I don't see it as a huge part of the "who's the starter" decision. DMo does 2 things on offense and 1 thing on defense that compliment the starters well: 1) He can shoot. While the sample size still isn't huge, he was knocking down 40%+ from 3 on 3 attempts per game at the end of last year. We need to see more, but it appears he turned a corner. That shooting would create the space for Dwight, Harden and Lawson to be extremely effective in the halfcourt. 2) He can move the ball. DMo has great court vision, and he doesn't need to make the flashy Josh Smith type passes to be effective (though he can). A three headed monster of Lawson-Harden-DMo will give defenses just as many fits with ball movement as Parker-Ginobili-Diaw have. 3) He's a solid positional defender - You don't put DMo out there to block shots or chase forwards around the perimeter......but he's a smart defender that knows where to be and has the footwork to cover 90% of your typical power forwards. He's like the bigs at Memphis and San Antonio.....right place, right time. With Dwight going for the block and our guards and forwards sometimes overplaying the lanes, its nice to have a guy that will make the right rotation to cover the gaps in our defense. Whether he starts or not, I expect DMo to get a ton of minutes. While I like the skillset TJones brings to the table, he's got to show some consistency as a shooter and awareness as a defender before I'll trust him.
Good comments all around here. I agree that if you're going to say "Trade TJones", you need to answer "for who?". We're in a complicated cap situation now and TJones gives you enough, even just as a solid regular season rotation player and occasional post season contributor, that you can't just get rid of him for nothing. We like to talk about TJones' post season shortcomings, and there are several examples....but at the time we most needed him (Game 6 of the Clippers series), he showed up. TJones is the one that didn't give up and the team responded.
What do you think Dmo's offensive skillset even is? Dwight is the garbage man, maybe THE garbage man. Dmo isn't a high volume player, but he provides a post up option for the starters (hopefully Harden continues freezing out Dwight's post ups and Ty joins him, or better yet, Dwight stops asking for them), plus he's a floor spacer and we have 2 of the best 3 point shot creators in basketball. Dmo is not a high volume guy, he's an elite 3rd/4th option
Morey said it best - "After James everything -- James left, James right -- after every single move James thinks of, our next best offensive option is a post-up by Donatas right now, which is just an amazing accomplishment that we can say that." IMO, it is not inappropriate to say that DMo can be the 2nd best offensive player on a championship team. Were he healthy during the playoffs, it's very possible that would have already been proven.
That's because Jones got hurt earlier in the season. Who started at the beginning Joe? That's right T. Jones.
Good stuff fins. As far as trading Terrence goes, I don't expect it'll go down until after Jan. 15th, when the contracts of guys like Brewer, Bev, and McDaniels become trade-able. At that time, I expect that Terrence will be packaged with perhaps at least one (probably more) of the above contracts in a deal for either a 3rd superstar or in a deal that drops us out of the luxury tax altogether. Something like Brewer/Terrence/picks for Cody Zeller/Brian Roberts/TroyDaniels. This type of trade gives us an upgrade at the big man spots. And it takes us out of the luxury tax while giving us a 15th man as well. There are plenty of other examples.
I really hope everyone read this because this is logical thinking at its finest. Internet high five dobro.
