NY bastard journalist(s)

[fya]

Beltran booed in return to Houston

HOUSTON — Carlos Beltran carried the Houston Astros to within a game of the World Series last fall. But last night the crowd at Minute Maid Park treated him like he had come to repossess their trailers.

Beltran was booed, long and loud. The crowd of 43,552 even booed when he caught fly balls in center field. Apparently he had some nerve taking $119 million from the Mets.

"I wasn't surprised," Beltran said after the Mets were beaten 3-2. "I was expecting what happened. ... It didn't hurt me. I tried to block it."

The ferocity of the crowd never ceased. Beltran said he was cursed while he was in the field and at the plate.

"I'm not going to say what they were saying," he said. "You can imagine."

Beltran was 0 for 4 but said the crowd wasn't the cause of that.

"I don't care. Being honest I don't care," he said. "They can boo me. They can do whatever they want."

"BELTRAN $UCK$" T-shirts were on sale outside the park and were moving fast, according to the vendors.

"If they're going to do good things with that money I'll help them make more shirts," Beltran said.

Change at first: Doug Mientkiewicz's opportunity to establish himself as the regular first baseman is fading away.

The Astros had right-hander Ezequiel Astacio on the mound last night but Marlon Anderson was at first base, not Mientkiewicz. Anderson, who homered twice against the Rockies on Wednesday, was 0 for 4, leaving four men on base.

[Clutch]

Link.

[fya]

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050729/SPORTS01/507290339/1108/SPORTS01

[MadMax]

he was booed.

the mets lost.

the astros won.

i don't own a trailer.

bite me.

[Sishir Chang]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Can you imagine if the situation had been reversed and Beltran left the MEts to come to the Stros what sort of greeting he would get at Shea?

Would some NYC journalists make some glib dumb@ss comment about Mets fans booing, or doing far worse, to Beltran like he had stolen their cannoli, knishes, bagels or some other stupid NYC stereotype...

This jerk is making it out like Houstonians are the most rude classless backward fans when anyone who has been at Shea know that is anything but the case.

[arkoe]

Beltran played us like a fiddle and left us with nothing. We didn't even try to retain Kent because we we thought we were going to resign him. If he would have left without playing games, the boos wouldn't have been anywhere near as loud.

[PhiSlammaJamma]

I couldn't even see Beltran through all the dust we left him in.

[MR. MEOWGI]

Booing is fun.

[slickvik69]

I don't get it. Maybe he just wanted to play in New York. Maybe he likes New York better than Houston. Maybe he felt more comfortable with a fellow latino in General Manager Omar Minaya than he did with Drayton McLane.

He signed where he wanted to play, just appreciate that the time he was an Astro. You can't assume someone is going to re-sign just because you want them to.

[Uprising]

pft. Sounds like someone is bitter. Yes you lost NY!

Oh, by the way.....I recall hearing booes aimed at Beltran earlier this week...IN NY!!!! :p

[Buck Turgidson]

I don't get it.
No kidding.

[The Real Shady]

I don't get it. Maybe he just wanted to play in New York. Maybe he likes New York better than Houston. Maybe he felt more comfortable with a fellow latino in General Manager Omar Minaya than he did with Drayton McLane.

He signed where he wanted to play, just appreciate that the time he was an Astro. You can't assume someone is going to re-sign just because you want them to.

That's fine if he wanted to go to New York, just don't screw the Astros over in the process. Like many have said before, he strung us along so it would drive up the price NY would have to pay. By him using us we didn't have a chance to go after any other free agents.

Suck it Beltraitor! :)

[Lil Francis]

Yeah everyone in the crowd lives in trailers, had on cowboy hats and boots, and listens to country western music :rolleyes: What a jerk.

[RocketMan Tex]

I just wrote a letter to the Journal news...let's see if it gets printed....

[Clutch]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Can you imagine if the situation had been reversed and Beltran left the MEts to come to the Stros what sort of greeting he would get at Shea?

Hey, why use your imagination when there is already precedence.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/stuff/cf_nypost.gif http://bbs.clutchfans.net/stuff/cf_nypost2.gif

[ima_drummer2k]

I don't get it.
No kidding.
I don't get not getting it.

Like Shady said, if he wanted to go to NY for more money, fine. Just show some class and be straight with us. Give us the same courtesy we gave you. Let us do what we need to do to replace you in the offseason. That's not what he did. He waited until (literally) the last minute to drop the bombshell. He used us.

Look at Randy Johnson. Does anyone here have any ill will towards him for signing with Arizona? No. If I remember right, he even got a standing O the first time he came back to Houston. It's because he did it the right way.

Beltrash and his fat oaf of an agent should take a lesson in class from RJ.

[Icehouse]

Dont the home team fans have the right to boo EVERYBODY on the opposing team?

[Groogrux]

I don't get not getting it.

Like Shady said, if he wanted to go to NY for more money, fine. Just show some class and be straight with us. Give us the same courtesy we gave you. Let us do what we need to do to replace you in the offseason. That's not what he did. He waited until (literally) the last minute to drop the bombshell. He used us.

Look at Randy Johnson. Does anyone here have any ill will towards him for signing with Arizona? No. If I remember right, he even got a standing O the first time he came back to Houston. It's because he did it the right way.

Beltrash and his fat oaf of an agent should take a lesson in class from RJ.

Buck gets it...he was just pointing out that SlickVik didn't get it. :)

[Svpernaut]

We can all sit in our trailers and watch the Astros in the playoffs this year... and the Mets fans can watch the work on their golf strokes during the playoffs this year.

[Svpernaut]

By the way, the "GO HOME BELTRAITOR" sign was a stroke of genius... Score one for Stros fans!

[xiki]

We can all sit in our trailers and watch the Astros in the playoffs this year... and the Mets fans can watch the work on their golf strokes during the playoffs this year.

Golf? There's no golf in NY in October!

[Sishir Chang]

Hey, why use your imagination when there is already precedence.


Thanks Clutch, I forgot about the Clemens situation.

I got a friend in NYC whose a huge Mets fan and he got a huge kick out of those. Of course being a true Mets fan he hates the Yankees so was loving it about as much as me.

I think his reaction would've been a little different if Clemens had been playing for the Mets and led them to a few World Series.

As a side note he was against the Mets signing Beltran. He thought they were spending too much money for someone who only had one great postseason.

[Major]

Like Shady said, if he wanted to go to NY for more money, fine. Just show some class and be straight with us. Give us the same courtesy we gave you.

Huh? What courtesy did we give him? It was a negotiation. We didn't offer him $100M off the bat. We offered him $75M. If he had been straight from the start, he would have gotten a far lower offer from NY. Should he have taken $40M less to be nice to a team he spent 4 months with? I still don't see what he did wrong here. It would be different if all the teams gave him a final offer and then he waiting 4 months to decide - but the offer kept rising. As a player and an agent, that was the goal, and that's what happened.

Yes, the Astros got screwed - that's part of what negotiating involves. You don't always get the player you want. Until you have a signed contract, you'd be stupid to assume he's coming back. And we as fans, and maybe the organization as well, were stupid to assume any such thing. We took a gamble waiting him out and lost. Big deal.

It's amazing Astros fans are so pissed still, given that the end result worked out perfectly for us. As it stands this year, we're better off without him. We're better off without people like Steve Finley who were guys we might have signed. We have a great team we love with a lot of exciting young players. And yet, we're pissed that the Beltran situation caused us to be in this situation. :confused:

[Mr. Clutch]

Huh? What courtesy did we give him? It was a negotiation. We didn't offer him $100M off the bat. We offered him $75M. If he had been straight from the start, he would have gotten a far lower offer from NY. Should he have taken $40M less to be nice to a team he spent 4 months with? I still don't see what he did wrong here. It would be different if all the teams gave him a final offer and then he waiting 4 months to decide - but the offer kept rising. As a player and an agent, that was the goal, and that's what happened.

Yes, the Astros got screwed - that's part of what negotiating involves. You don't always get the player you want. Until you have a signed contract, you'd be stupid to assume he's coming back. And we as fans, and maybe the organization as well, were stupid to assume any such thing. We took a gamble waiting him out and lost. Big deal.

It's amazing Astros fans are so pissed still, given that the end result worked out perfectly for us. As it stands this year, we're better off without him. We're better off without people like Steve Finley who were guys we might have signed. We have a great team we love with a lot of exciting young players. And yet, we're pissed that the Beltran situation caused us to be in this situation. :confused:

Yes, it was negotiations, but they (Boras and Beltran) were as dirty as possible to squeeze out every penny from the Mets. When he said Houston as his first choice it just wasn't true. That kind of money grubbing deserves a good booing. And yes, we were probably dumb for believing him and Boras.

I'm glad though, that we didn't sign him.

[JayZ750]

The question really should be why is Beltran continuing to get this "implied" pass on his season. Dude is sucking it up at the plate, and regardless of how he is playing in the field, is ripping the Mets off. He's like Kelvin Cato but worse, because Beltran really should be good whereas Cato was just flat out overpaid.

[Svpernaut]

It's amazing Astros fans are so pissed still, given that the end result worked out perfectly for us. As it stands this year, we're better off without him.

So I guess if I was married, and my wife cheated on me she gets off the hook because the next woman I date is the woman of my dreams? Just because I'm doing better without her doesn't mean I hate her any less.

[The Real Shady]

It's amazing Astros fans are so pissed still, given that the end result worked out perfectly for us. As it stands this year, we're better off without him. We're better off without people like Steve Finley who were guys we might have signed. We have a great team we love with a lot of exciting young players. And yet, we're pissed that the Beltran situation caused us to be in this situation. :confused:

I'm ecstatic that fans are pissed. It means they care.

[rrj_gamz]

he was booed.

the mets lost.

the astros won.

i don't own a trailer.

bite me.

Ditto...What asses, but when you got nothing else, trying to hurt someone is the next best thing... :rolleyes:

[MadMax]

I'm ecstatic that fans are pissed. It means they care.

EXACTLY!!! if all of this helps stoke the passion of baseball fans here...if it helps create a better baseball city than it was previously...then great!!! i love to see people care about this franchise like this here. as an astros fan, i always felt like i was in the serious minority growing up in this town. no longer. the ballpark and the relative recent success has attributed to that, i believe.

[Buck Turgidson]

EXACTLY!!! if all of this helps stoke the passion of baseball fans here...if it helps create a better baseball city than it was previously...then great!!!
Especially when it effects his play:

"I tried to block it out, but I was too close. I couldn't block it out. But to be honest, I don't care at all. They can boo me. I just want to concentrate on my game. It's just hard to block all that noise out."

I hope the fans light him up the rest of the series.

[MadMax]

Especially when it effects his play:

"I tried to block it out, but I was too close. I couldn't block it out. But to be honest, I don't care at all. They can boo me. I just want to concentrate on my game. It's just hard to block all that noise out."

I hope the fans light him up the rest of the series.

i'm going tonight and i promise to do my best :)

[Groogrux]

i'm going tonight and i promise to do my best :)

I have a feeling we might hear Jack's first curse word tonight. :D just kidding...i'll keep it clean for the kiddies.

[pgabriel]

Huh? What courtesy did we give him? It was a negotiation. We didn't offer him $100M off the bat. We offered him $75M. If he had been straight from the start, he would have gotten a far lower offer from NY. Should he have taken $40M less to be nice to a team he spent 4 months with? I still don't see what he did wrong here. It would be different if all the teams gave him a final offer and then he waiting 4 months to decide - but the offer kept rising. As a player and an agent, that was the goal, and that's what happened.

Yes, the Astros got screwed - that's part of what negotiating involves. You don't always get the player you want. Until you have a signed contract, you'd be stupid to assume he's coming back. And we as fans, and maybe the organization as well, were stupid to assume any such thing. We took a gamble waiting him out and lost. Big deal.

It's amazing Astros fans are so pissed still, given that the end result worked out perfectly for us. As it stands this year, we're better off without him. We're better off without people like Steve Finley who were guys we might have signed. We have a great team we love with a lot of exciting young players. And yet, we're pissed that the Beltran situation caused us to be in this situation. :confused:


Good post, I would also like to add that dude was traded here, played great, and went where he wanted. He owes the Astros no loyalty. The Roger situation isn't the same. He said he was retiring, and then left to go to another city. Which is also his perogative, but just pointing out its not the same.

[Groogrux]

Good post, I would also like to add that dude was traded here, played great, and went where he wanted. He owes the Astros no loyalty. The Roger situation isn't the same. He said he was retiring, and then left to go to another city. Which is also his perogative, but just pointing out its not the same.

He owed them an ethical and truthful negotiation which one can argue he did not. And don't come back with it was his agent and not him. He hires his agent.

I don't understand how hard it is for some to understand why people don't like Beltran. Sure, he was only here a few months and didn't owe the Astros squat, my previous caveat not withstanding, but this is and will always be a part of sports. Like someone earlier correctly analogized, sports are very much like relationships and/or family. When you're jilted by a player, you're pissed. When you're jilted by a significant other, you're pissed. It doesn't matter you're better off because that person jilted you, you're still going to be upset. Many fans view their sports teams like they do family, to a lesser extent among most. You mess with us one way or another, we're going to let you have it next time we see you.

Not to mention, just because he's not living up to his contract in New York doesn't mean he wouldn't be here. Less pressure + fans treating him like a god = much higher comfort level for Beltran. He had the chance to be King of the city when it comes to athletes. Had he stayed and we won a World Series, he'd be bigger than them all, Dream included.

[pgabriel]

Also, its a little unfair to compare Randy Johnson to Carlos Beltran. The market for pitchers is almost always set going into the offseason because its easier to compare pitchers to other pitchers especially starters. Randy Johnson was arguably the best pitcher in the Majors, if not he was only behind Pedro. He knew he would be if not the highest paid, one of them. Position players are ranked on so many variables that it basically comes down to what teams can best use your skillset, especially outfielders. Johnson wouldn't have had the opportunity to increase his contract value the way Beltran did.

[The Real Shady]

Especially when it effects his play:

"I tried to block it out, but I was too close. I couldn't block it out. But to be honest, I don't care at all. They can boo me. I just want to concentrate on my game. It's just hard to block all that noise out."

I hope the fans light him up the rest of the series.

I only wish Beltran would say, They beat me. They're that good right now. They're that hot. I just tip my hat and call the Astros my daddy.

[pgabriel]

Okay lets compare this to a relationship. If rooting for Olajuwon was like marrying your H.S. sweetheart (basically being a Houston Sports Icon his whole career including College) the Beltran was like a one night stand with the baddest girl in the club that night, almost getting her to do everything ;) (almost getting to the W.S.). What guy would complain about that?

[Harrisment]

We hate Beltran because we can. I don't get why some Astros fans have a problem with that, who gives a damn. As others have said it's doing nothing but getting more people interested in Houston baseball, and that can only be a good thing!

[Sishir Chang]

Okay lets compare this to a relationship. If rooting for Olajuwon was like marrying your H.S. sweetheart (basically being a Houston Sports Icon his whole career including College)

Then what do you call that one year in Toronto? A trial separation?

[Castor27]

Okay lets compare this to a relationship. If rooting for Olajuwon was like marrying your H.S. sweetheart (basically being a Houston Sports Icon his whole career including College) the Beltran was like a one night stand with the baddest girl in the club that night, almost getting her to do everything ;) (almost getting to the W.S.). What guy would complain about that?

Well if you consider that that one night stand gave you V.D. (using us for a better contract from the Mets) then you'll hear a lot of complaints.

[pgabriel]

Then what do you call that one year in Toronto? A trial separation?


It was a bad divorce. That's my point. There's a reason to be upset, you just lost the only person you ever new to some upstart young punk. Beltran, really he wasn't long enough here for me to hate him.

[thacabbage]

I'm sorry, but booing a player who negotiated a better deal for himself is pathetic. Why are we so overly obsessed with this guy when we're obviously better off having not signed him? If you want to use the analogy of an unfaithful ex-wife, then I ask you, if you went on after that marriage to marry a supermodel who you were dearly in love with, would you go back and write dirty emails every day attacking your ex-wife or would you just forget about her and enjoy your new wife? It's pathetic and classless to see a stadium full of grown adults so overly obsessed with one human being. Even cursing at that person just because they didn't get what they wanted. Real mature. :rolleyes:

What exactly did he do wrong here? So the guy took the highest offer. So shoot him. :rolleyes: You can say they were dirty in their negotiations, but that's real life folks. If the Astros didn't want to get caught with their pants pulled down, they should have set a deadline or explored other options. Noone was holding a gun to their heads to play along in Boras' games. You say that Beltran never even gave the Astros a chance and was intent on New York all the way - well then, if it's so obvious after the fact, why didn't anyone have that foresight at the time? Noone held a gun to their head. So the guy left the team, big deal, move on and act like you've been there. We're better off without his contract.

As for me, I was not at the game, but had I been, no doubt I would have given him a huge standing ovation. Carlos Beltran gave me the greatest ride of sports memories I've ever had. More than either Rockets' championship. For once, he made this city believe that maybe it's baseball team was not cursed. Setting the record for postseason HR's, turning singles into doubles on the basepaths, making the two greatest catches in Astros postseason history. Every time he stepped to the plate, you knew something was going to happen. That was one magical ride that made this Astros fan believe that maybe that year, maybe they could win it all. For that, I could never boo Carlos Beltran.

[Groogrux]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Have you been around sports for any significant amount of time. Everyone boos at some point. It's a part of professional sports. I can't believe people are getting so worked up about the booing of a professional athlete. Especially one whose, IMO, unethical negotiations could have helped ruin our season.

[thacabbage]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Have you been around sports for any significant amount of time. Everyone boos at some point. It's a part of professional sports. I can't believe people are getting so worked up about the booing of a professional athlete. Especially one whose, IMO, unethical negotiations could have helped ruin our season.
But not to a guy who helped you get to a level that he did. Hey, I can understand booing Scottie Pippen. He trashed Charles Barkley and screwed us by bringing down his trade value. But Beltran? Why?

[pgabriel]

The other thing is this, I always pictured Houston as a town above booing like that other than an idiot like Scottie Pippen. I don't understand anyone's logic in it making us a better baseball town. How does booing this guy make you a better baseball town? That makes no sense.

[Groogrux]

But not to a guy who helped you get to a level that he did. Hey, I can understand booing Scottie Pippen. He trashed Charles Barkley and screwed us by bringing down his trade value. But Beltran? Why?

Please go back and read the last sentence of my last post. It doesn't matter how it's ended up.

[Svpernaut]

OVERRATED. *CLAP, CLAP, CLAP CLAP CLAP*

That is what I want to hear tonight from the fans... a little New York hospitality for him down in the south.

[The Real Shady]

I'm sorry, but booing a player who negotiated a better deal for himself is pathetic. Why are we so overly obsessed with this guy when we're obviously better off having not signed him? If you want to use the analogy of an unfaithful ex-wife, then I ask you, if you went on after that marriage to marry a supermodel who you were dearly in love with, would you go back and write dirty emails every day attacking your ex-wife or would you just forget about her and enjoy your new wife? It's pathetic and classless to see a stadium full of grown adults so overly obsessed with one human being. Even cursing at that person just because they didn't get what they wanted. Real mature. :rolleyes:

What exactly did he do wrong here? So the guy took the highest offer. So shoot him. :rolleyes: You can say they were dirty in their negotiations, but that's real life folks. If the Astros didn't want to get caught with their pants pulled down, they should have set a deadline or explored other options. Noone was holding a gun to their heads to play along in Boras' games. You say that Beltran never even gave the Astros a chance and was intent on New York all the way - well then, if it's so obvious after the fact, why didn't anyone have that foresight at the time? Noone held a gun to their head. So the guy left the team, big deal, move on and act like you've been there. We're better off without his contract.

As for me, I was not at the game, but had I been, no doubt I would have given him a huge standing ovation. Carlos Beltran gave me the greatest ride of sports memories I've ever had. More than either Rockets' championship. For once, he made this city believe that maybe it's baseball team was not cursed. Setting the record for postseason HR's, turning singles into doubles on the basepaths, making the two greatest catches in Astros postseason history. Every time he stepped to the plate, you knew something was going to happen. That was one magical ride that made this Astros fan believe that maybe that year, maybe they could win it all. For that, I could never boo Carlos Beltran.

You have your right to cheer just like we have our right to boo. You don't get us booing, and we don't get your cheering. It seems like by the reaction at Thursday's game more people don't get your opinion.

[Groogrux]

The other thing is this, I always pictured Houston as a town above booing like other than an idiot like Scottie Pippen. I don't understand anyone's logic in it making us a better baseball town. How does booing this guy make you a better baseball town? That makes no sense.

It shows passion. All fans boo at some point. Show me a town that doesn't. It's not like batteries were thrown at him or anything like that. If that happens, I'll be the first to criticize just like I'm happy to call those fans who poured beers on Mets fans idiots. However, for a town that's been roundly criticized for not showing any, good or bad, I'm happy about the booing. Just like I was when we booed Pippen.

[Major]

I can't believe people are getting so worked up about the booing of a professional athlete.

You can't believe people would get so worked up to post about the booing an athlete, but you say its completely expected that people would get worked up enough to actually boo said athlete for 3 hours? :)

Especially one whose, IMO, unethical negotiations could have helped ruin our season.

What do we actually know about the negotiations to know they were unethical?

[thacabbage]

Please go back and read the last sentence of my last post. It doesn't matter how it's ended up.
Like I addressed in my post, who's fault is that that the negotiations could have ruined our season? Major did a much better job explaining this.

[Saint Louis]

Lets see from a Houston sports fan view:

1. Beltran signed elsewhere for more money, greedy. Strike one!

2. Beltran and agent Boras strung the Astros along, dishonest. Strike two!

3. Beltran went to New York, yankee lover. Strike three!

4. Beltran is playing for the Mets, ugh. Strike four!

That's four strikes and it only takes three to be out. Boo him like hell!

[The Real Shady]

The other thing is this, I always pictured Houston as a town above booing like that other than an idiot like Scottie Pippen. I don't understand anyone's logic in it making us a better baseball town. How does booing this guy make you a better baseball town? That makes no sense.

The only town above that would be St. Louis. I never did like their goody two shoes image. :)

But trust me. If this type of thing happened to the Yankees or the Sox their fans would react the exact same, and they are great baseball towns.

[thacabbage]

Rocketman95: I've personally never been one to boo much. Maybe I'm not that passionate I guess. I've always just felt it seemed like a bunch of grown adults acting like children, overly obsessed with some millionaire who probably couldn't care less (despite that it distracted him). But I'm cool with it at times. I won't get worked up over it or anything. When Jalen Rose came back after what he did to Mario, boo the hell out of that bastard for that cheap shot. Same with Scottie. Or JD Drew in Philadelphia. But Beltran was a free agent. We knew he wasn't coming back. That we decided to play along in Boras' game was our fault. Besides, last postseason - man....that was something to behold.

[Groogrux]

You can't believe people would get so worked up to post about the booing an athlete, but you say its completely expected that people would get worked up enough to actually boo said athlete for 3 hours? :)

Because booing happens everyday for a lot less. To act surprised and to call people immature for doing it is ridiculous.

What do we actually know about the negotiations to know they were unethical?

I wish I could find the editorial in the Chronicle a few days after he signed. It had some good arguments by a Baker Botts (:)) attorney for the Attorney General filing a DTPA claim against Boras for essentially lying about offers that never happened. I know the Wetspot has a copy of it...I'll investigate. :)

[Svpernaut]

I'll investigate. :)


Lycos, go get it!

[ima_drummer2k]

You can say they were dirty in their negotiations, but that's real life folks.
Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. There is a difference.

Huh? What courtesy did we give him?
We (the fans) treated him better last year than the ny fans are treating him this year, even when he was slumping towards the end of the regular season. We let him in. You can come back with the "it's a business" argument and I'll say he can do his business (grabbing all the cash humanly possible) and we'll do ours (boo'ing his ass when he comes back to town).

Man, some of you are acting like we murdered his family or something. The guy got over $71,000 (1 game salary) last night. All for going 0-4 and getting boo'ed for a couple of hours.

HE'LL GET OVER IT.

[Major]

Because booing happens everyday for a lot less. To act surprised and to call people immature for doing it is ridiculous.


People do immature things all the time and get called out on it all the time ... and no one is surprised by the booing.


I wish I could find the editorial in the Chronicle a few days after he signed. It had some good arguments by a Baker Botts () attorney for the Attorney General filing a DTPA claim against Boras for essentially lying about offers that never happened. I know the Wetspot has a copy of it...I'll investigate.


Neat! I hadn't heard that.. did anything ever come of it?

[Major]

Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. There is a difference.


I'd say the same about the booing. :)


Man, some of you are acting like we murdered his family or something.


I'd say you're acting like he murdered your family or something too. :)

[Puedlfor]

1) Beltran is a Met - that is reason enough to boo.

2) Beltran consistently lied to the Astros during the offseason. Why is so hard to understand anger at a player who told lie after lie after lie to the Astros organization. This is why I am pissed at him.

He lied to us - he could've gone the route of Randy Johnson - who flat out told both the Mariners and the Astros that he was going to sign with Arizona - because that's where he wanted to end his career.

Yes, we fell for it - but that in no way excuses the lies of Beltran over the offseason.

[ima_drummer2k]

some good arguments by a Baker Botts (:))
Sorry for the derail, but Major or RM95, do you work for Baker Botts and if so, are you going to the function at the Wortham tomorrow night?

Just wondering because I hear there's a pretty good band playing... ;)

[The Cat]

It isn't close to the same situation, but what about John Rocker? Mets' fans gave him hell (deservedly) for making all those stereotypes about New York City. I guess it's not ok for people to stereotype their city, but they can do it to us? Classy. :rolleyes:

What exactly did he do wrong here? So the guy took the highest offer. So shoot him. You can say they were dirty in their negotiations, but that's real life folks. If the Astros didn't want to get caught with their pants pulled down, they should have set a deadline or explored other options. Noone was holding a gun to their heads to play along in Boras' games. You say that Beltran never even gave the Astros a chance and was intent on New York all the way - well then, if it's so obvious after the fact, why didn't anyone have that foresight at the time? Noone held a gun to their head. So the guy left the team, big deal, move on and act like you've been there. We're better off without his contract.

Considering the state income tax in New York, it's doubtful that the Mets' deal was better than ours. At best, the two were comparable. Regardless, that's not my issue with Beltran. Can he take the highest offer? Absolutely. But he said money wasn't the top priority. He said it was about winning. He said it was about a good "fit" and hinted that he didn't like the privacy invasion that comes from playing in a town like New York. If he had come out from the beginning and said that money was his biggest priority (which some athletes do), McLane would've known that we couldn't compete with New York and we could've turned our attention to Alou, Finley or another outfielder. He didn't, and it cost us.

Does it happen all the time in real life? Absolutely. It still doesn't make it right. It's not about loyalty. It's about having the decency to handle negotiations with class and respect for the other side, and all athletes should do that, regardless of how little time they've been with the organization.

[Harrisment]

BOoooOoooooooOOOoo this thread!!



;)

[thacabbage]

But how did it cost us? We're better off without having to pay any of those guys.

*Shrug* I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree. I've always felt that apathy showed alot more. We've moved on. Walk it off. We're better off without him. Show that it's nothing to you and move on. Instead, it just looks pathetic booing the guy like we actually wish we had that contract on our books.

[Saint Louis]

BOoooOoooooooOOOoo this thread!!



;)

Booooo the Utah Jazz!!
Booooo the Republicans!!
Booooo the Democrats!!
Booooo the French!!
Booooo New York!!
Booooo the Middle East!!
Booooo Ashlee Simpson!!
Booooo taxes!!
Booooo the alien invaders who will enlsave us all in 2012!!

[The Cat]

But how did it cost us? We're better off without having to pay any of those guys.

*Shrug* I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree. I've always felt that apathy showed alot more. We've moved on. Walk it off. We're better off without him. Show that it's nothing to you and move on. Instead, it just looks pathetic booing the guy like we actually wish we had that contract on our books.

This is an entirely different subject, but I disagree. If this team wants to make any kind of serious postseason run, we need to trade for a corner OF with some pop this weekend to replace Chris Burke. I think we'll be able to do it, but it'll cost us some prospects as opposed to signing them for just cash in the offseason. No, it's not the end of the world, but it easily could've been worse, and I fault Beltran for not considering our organization's position by not telling us his priorities from the start.

But, I know that's a subject for another thread, so I'm fine agreeing to disagree.

[thacabbage]

This is an entirely different subject, but I disagree. If this team wants to make any kind of serious postseason run, we need to trade for a corner OF with some pop this weekend to replace Chris Burke. I think we'll be able to do it, but it'll cost us some prospects as opposed to signing them for just cash in the offseason. No, it's not the end of the world, but it easily could've been worse, and I fault Beltran for not considering our organization's position by not telling us his priorities from the start.

But, I know that's a subject for another thread, so I'm fine agreeing to disagree.
Point taken. I agree, we need a bat.

[T_in_Charlotte]

I don't pay any attention to the New York media. They are still bitter about '94

[ima_drummer2k]

But how did it cost us? We're better off without having to pay any of those guys.
Here's what I think. I think fans were booing the principle behind what he did, so it doesn't matter that we're better off without him, which we are. I also don't think the booing will be as bad tonight.

We've been waiting to get that out of our collective system since the very moment (11pm on a Saturday night) Matt Jackson broke in and announced that a Beltran/Houston deal was not inked before the deadline. I mean, as soon we heard the news, was anyone NOT thinking to themselves "man, I can't wait until he comes to MM for the first time"?

[Major]

Sorry for the derail, but Major or RM95, do you work for Baker Botts and if so, are you going to the function at the Wortham tomorrow night?

Just wondering because I hear there's a pretty good band playing... ;)

Neither of us do, but we have a good friend that does.


2) Beltran consistently lied to the Astros during the offseason. Why is so hard to understand anger at a player who told lie after lie after lie to the Astros organization. This is why I am pissed at him.


Again, we don't know this. We heard nothing firsthand from either Beltran or Boras about where he planned to sign and what interested him. Sure, he said vague things like it's about a good fit and all. But maybe he thought that NY was a better fit? They have a Puerto Rican GM - maybe he valued that? Maybe he <I>likes</I> the NY atmosphere. We made all sorts of judgements about what we thought he liked based on 4 months of seeing him, but who's to say we're right? Maybe he wants the opportunity to be in the NY spotlight? We have no idea what was going through his mind.

All we have to go on that says he lied to the Astros is McLane... but keep in mind, player after player (Kile, Hampton, Bagwell, Kent, for starters) have said bad things about the Astros' contract negotiations process, and all have conflicted with what the Astros have said. So who knows what the truth is there.

[The Cat]

Again, we don't know this. We heard nothing firsthand from either Beltran or Boras about where he planned to sign and what interested him. Sure, he said vague things like it's about a good fit and all. But maybe he thought that NY was a better fit? They have a Puerto Rican GM - maybe he valued that? Maybe he <I>likes</I> the NY atmosphere. We made all sorts of judgements about what we thought he liked based on 4 months of seeing him, but who's to say we're right? Maybe he wants the opportunity to be in the NY spotlight? We have no idea what was going through his mind.

No, we don't know. But it was strongly implied that the clubhouse atmosphere and fit were things he preferred about Houston. Even if that wasn't the case, he could've still told this (that he preferred the NY atmosphere) to McLane earlier in the process so McLane could go after his secondary targets. For example, I've read from several sources that many in the Astros' front office wanted to go after Alou in mid-December and felt they could easily get him within their budget. But McLane put that on hold because Boras/Beltran had him feeling optimistic about the Beltran situation. Whether it was the money, atmosphere, clubhouse or whatever that led him to New York, it's clear (imo) that he could've done a better job of letting the Astros know that earlier in the process so they could make other plans.

[thacabbage]

But who's fault is that that they decided to put all their eggs in one basket? You can't blame Beltran for dragging out negotiations as long as possible - that's how you get yourself a better deal. Was he supposed to just sign early just to give the Astros a chance to get other free agents? No, he had the power to hold out and get himself a better deal and so he did it. Sucked for us, but he did what he had to do.

[Major]

No, we don't know. But it was strongly implied that the clubhouse atmosphere and fit were things he preferred about Houston. Even if that wasn't the case, he could've still told this (that he preferred the NY atmosphere) to McLane earlier in the process so McLane could go after his secondary targets. For example, I've read from several sources that many in the Astros' front office wanted to go after Alou in mid-December and felt they could easily get him within their budget. But McLane put that on hold because Boras/Beltran had him feeling optimistic about the Beltran situation. Whether it was the money, atmosphere, clubhouse or whatever that led him to New York, it's clear (imo) that he could've done a better job of letting the Astros know that earlier in the process so they could make other plans.

If Beltran would have told McLane he wasn't going to sign with Houston (and this assumes he already knew this early in the process), then Houston would have pulled out, potentially costing Beltran upwards of $30,000,000. Is it really reasonable to expect this?

[Raven Lunatic]

I was going to go to last night's game, but I knew it was going to be sold out and I didn't want to risk my horse not having a spot at the watering trough. Plus, I heard there might be some black folk there and I'm all out of rope.

Booing is part of sports. To act like it has meaning the same as verbally assaulting a random person on the street is silly. To some people, it may have that meaning, but to most it just makes the game that much more fun. I was booing his ass at home watching on TV. I loved every bit of his 0-4 night. :)

[Puedlfor]

That still doesn't excuse his lying. He was going to get huge money anyways, with his talent and his October performance, I don't care how you want to spin it - there's no defense for lying like he did.

[The Cat]

If Beltran would have told McLane he wasn't going to sign with Houston (and this assumes he already knew this early in the process), then Houston would have pulled out, potentially costing Beltran upwards of $30,000,000. Is it really reasonable to expect this?

He didn't have to tell McLane flat-out no. He could've simply been vague and non-specific and not told things to McLane to deliberately mislead him into being optimistic (unless you think McLane is just dumb, and maybe he is). It may not be reasonable to eliminate the Astros completely early in the process, but regardless of potential salary, I think it's reasonable for him not to blatantly mislead our front office. Yes, it's possible that he didn't, but McLane would have to be one of the dumbest men on earth if that were the case.

But who's fault is that that they decided to put all their eggs in one basket? You can't blame Beltran for dragging out negotiations as long as possible - that's how you get yourself a better deal. Was he supposed to just sign early just to give the Astros a chance to get other free agents? No, he had the power to hold out and get himself a better deal and so he did it. Sucked for us, but he did what he had to do.

Partly McLane and partly Beltran's. We've seen how the Astros handle free agents over the years. They have no problems viewing a player like Beltran as a one-year rental and letting him walk after the season - see Randy Johnson. There's something Beltran did that led our front office to be more optimistic than usual. I don't know specifically what it is, but things went down behind the scenes to mislead our management and I don't think that's right, even if it got Beltran more money.

[DallasThomas]

Huh? What courtesy did we give him? It was a negotiation. We didn't offer him $100M off the bat. We offered him $75M. If he had been straight from the start, he would have gotten a far lower offer from NY. Should he have taken $40M less to be nice to a team he spent 4 months with? I still don't see what he did wrong here. It would be different if all the teams gave him a final offer and then he waiting 4 months to decide - but the offer kept rising. As a player and an agent, that was the goal, and that's what happened.

Yes, the Astros got screwed - that's part of what negotiating involves. You don't always get the player you want. Until you have a signed contract, you'd be stupid to assume he's coming back. And we as fans, and maybe the organization as well, were stupid to assume any such thing. We took a gamble waiting him out and lost. Big deal.

It's amazing Astros fans are so pissed still, given that the end result worked out perfectly for us. As it stands this year, we're better off without him. We're better off without people like Steve Finley who were guys we might have signed. We have a great team we love with a lot of exciting young players. And yet, we're pissed that the Beltran situation caused us to be in this situation. :confused:

Apparently Astros gave him the same offer that was given to Vlad guerrero by the Angels;namely 5 yrs for 70 million or so. Boras said beltran was a much better player than vlad. In reality he is not nearly as good. I mean everybody leaves via free agency and such but to do what he did was just flat out wrong. Besides with no state income tax in TX our offer was just the same as theirs. If he really liked NY then he should have just told drayton that he was not gonna sign . A player who has hit .300 only once in a season and had only one good postseason does not deserve a no trade clause over seven years or so. I am glad because the mets will have to pay him all that money for his sub par performances from here on in.

[Clutch]

Yes, the Astros got screwed - that's part of what negotiating involves.

And when your team gets screwed, you boo - that's part of what being a fan involves.

I really don't understand the issue you guys take with it. No, he didn't light Bum Phillips on fire with a torch made from the body parts of Nolan Ryan and Hakeem Olajuwon, but many feel he wasn't truthful with the Astros and that the "no-trade clause" quip was a lie to coverup that he never seriously considered Houston -- that he really was only using the team and toying with the fans in order to get to the Big Apple (though he begrudgingly had to go to the city's minor league team). I don't really see the problem with booing him at all.

[SWTsig]

We hate Beltran because we can. I don't get why some Astros fans have a problem with that, who gives a damn. As others have said it's doing nothing but getting more people interested in Houston baseball, and that can only be a good thing!

exactly.

f*ck beltran.

see, i feel better already.

[Bassfly]

Beltran betrayed us. We embraced him as a city. The guy could have ran for mayor and I would have voted for him. He won community awards, was involved in our society -- this newcomer was accepted into Houston culture in such a short time. During the season and offseasn he always said the right things: he loved the team, loved his teammates, and loved the city -- he wants to come back. He gave the perception that, all things being equal, he would come back. He dragged contract talks out, and spurned us because the no trade clause didnt cover the full length of his contract. You may argue that its the nature of the business and pat him on the back for getting himself a better deal. but some people value loyalty and integrity, and that's why I'm bitter.

[mateo]

Okay lets compare this to a relationship. If rooting for Olajuwon was like marrying your H.S. sweetheart (basically being a Houston Sports Icon his whole career including College) the Beltran was like a one night stand with the baddest girl in the club that night, almost getting her to do everything ;) (almost getting to the W.S.). What guy would complain about that?

Great analogy.

I am glad we didnt get Beltran. I dont think he's worth $100 million a year.. I think Drayton can spend that money elsewhere. And despite the occasional CF gaffe, I really dig Willie out there.

Oh, but please boo him. The local NY news last night mentioned that it hurts his feelings. I hate the Mets and this is turning out to be a great weekend.

[VesceySux]

I know for a fact that Beltran's personal handler thought Carlos was going to Houston. Beltran then apparently changed his mind at the last second. Why? More money from the Mets? Living in New York? I have no idea. I'd love to know. My source kept me out of the loop. :(

My vendetta against Beltran comes from the fact that he made me look bad to the BBS. I reported that he was leaning towards Houston, and in the end, I was wrong. For that, Carlos must die. :)

However, I don't think he misled Houston. If his personal handler thought he was going to Houston, obviously based on multiple conversations with the guy, then we were definitely in the running until the bitter end. Yes, we got screwed, but what can you do? It was down to 2 teams, and we came in second place. All the eggs in one little basket...

[Stack24]

It's only going to get better as we win the next 2 and send his butt packing back to NY.

[pgabriel]

Great analogy.

I am glad we didnt get Beltran. I dont think he's worth $100 million a year.. I think Drayton can spend that money elsewhere. And despite the occasional CF gaffe, I really dig Willie out there.

Oh, but please boo him. The local NY news last night mentioned that it hurts his feelings. I hate the Mets and this is turning out to be a great weekend.


Yeah, see we got lucky,we were the rebound guy off her bad relationship with Kansas City. You know that guy's worth nothing.

[slickvik69]

Maybe he just enjoys the New York lifestyle, who knows.

If you're going to be angry, be angry at Scott Boras. I think he's the bad guy in this situation, he's good at what he does but it's very agonizing to see him drive a player's salary above and beyond what he is truly worth.

[DVauthrin]

Excuse me, but Beltran hired Boras. And throughout the offseason, Astros players begged him to switch agents, and he didn't. So you can't excuse Beltran there.

How do we know he lied? Well for starters, Beltran stayed numerous times that he wanted to not be in the spotlight and didn't want to play in New York(I can find articles backing this up if you would like). But wait, we know now that he wanted to be a Yankee(Boras offered them 6 for 96: ie a discount, the day of the deadline) but wanted to be in New York so badly(or Boras did) that he signed with the Mets(his 3rd choice). Secondly, Beltran stated at his Mets press conference that he was impressed with the interest Minaya showed in him(ie visiting him in Puerto Rico). Guess what, the Astros offered to come visit him too but were told it was unnecessary by Boras.

Now we get to the deceitful Scott Boras(hired by Beltran remember). In the last few days of negotiations guess what happened: Boras leaked every Astros updated offer to the Mets. There is proof of this in the New York papers within days of the deadline. Furthermore, keep in mind we never could pinpoint what the Mets offer was, but every Astros offer was out there for all to see. It's pretty obvious now that Boras was the leak. Drayton and Tim said many times that they were not divulging the numbers at the wishes of Beltran. Then we get to deadline day, and Boras makes a ton of unscheduled requests/demands in the negotiations, hours before the deadline. Like that just happened by accident. Also, reports came out that Boras was negotiating with the Mets in those same hours. Lastly, dragging this out until january 9th cost the Astros any chance at obtaining a quality middle of the order bat to replace his production. The only bat that wasn't a Boras client and a FA after that point was Burnitz. And the Astros were in a very vunerable trade position when it came to Soriano.

So in conclusion, Beltran/Boras's company line is that this all hinged on a no-trade clause. However, I ask you this: Do you really think Drayton McClane(he who has rewarded fan favorites Biggio and Bagwell with very rich contracts) would let a fan favorite and postseason hero leave over something as small as a no trade clause? Honestly? If you really believe Drayton McClane would let a Carlos Beltran walk over a no trade clause, I have some land I would like to sell you. Is it possible? Yes. But it's incredibly unlikely. Drayton knew how much the city loved Beltran(see the keepbeltran.com website/petition) and he has always rewarded his star players and fan favorites before.

If you would like to read more, there are many beltran threads you can find through searching this BBS.

[Toast]

I can't stand that Beltran S-O-B. And I'm glad the journalists in NY noticed.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm gonna go and shoot me another one of them there squirrells runnin' out back and mama's gonna cook it up nice. We're havin' company over at the double wide so's she says I'm gonna hafta take a bath too. I don't ordinarily take 2 baths a month like this, but I reckon she's right.

[l3igballer23]

I can't stand that Beltran S-O-B. And I'm glad the journalists in NY noticed.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm gonna go and shoot me another one of them there squirrells runnin' out back and mama's gonna cook it up nice. We're havin' company over at the double wide so's she says I'm gonna hafta take a bath too. I don't ordinarily take 2 baths a month like this, but I reckon she's right.

:D :D :D

[intermill]

Okay lets compare this to a relationship. If rooting for Olajuwon was like marrying your H.S. sweetheart (basically being a Houston Sports Icon his whole career including College) the Beltran was like a one night stand with the baddest girl in the club that night, almost getting her to do everything ;) (almost getting to the W.S.). What guy would complain about that?

You left out the part where the one night stand tells you what a good time she had the next morning. Then the next night you are at the bar talking to another woman when you get a text saying how she hopes to see you again and meet you that night. So you turn down the who you are talking to because the one night stand has so much promise happen again. Then she decides to bang someone else and you get nothing.

[RocketMan Tex]

You left out the part where the one night stand tells you what a good time she had the next morning. Then the next night you are at the bar talking to another woman when you get a text saying how she hopes to see you again and meet you that night. So you turn down the who you are talking to because the one night stand has so much promise happen again. Then she decides to bang someone else and you get nothing.

:D:D:D

Very well said!

[msn]

1) Beltran is a Met - that is reason enough to boo.
...and that is all that needs to be said.

It is absolutely treasonous to defend a freaking low-life freaking met.

Show your colors! To hell with the mets, braves and dodgers!! Boo them all!!! GO ASTROS!!!!

[fya]

Don't forget the cubs! Boo those bastards too!

[Blatz]

Hitless Carlos Belted with boos (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/story/334059p-285440c.html)

BY ROGER RUBIN DAILY
NEWS SPORTS WRITER

On a night when the Mets electrified Shea with nine runs and 18 hits in a spectacular come-from-behind victory, one man stood out for all the wrong reasons. Carlos Beltran went 0-for-6 against the Brewers and was the only starting position player to go without a hit.
He has kept his composure through his offensive struggles, but last night the heralded offseason acquisition was showing frustration. He was irked that amid all the late-inning cheers for the comeback, Mets fans took breaks to jeer him after he made outs.

"What do you want me to do?" said Beltran, about the only somber person in a celebratory home clubhouse. "If they want to continue to boo, they can do it.

"I'll be here for seven years."

Beltran had to deal with an injured quad earlier in the season that may have contributed to his struggles then. He has no excuse for the last month, unable to get on any kind of roll.

He was supposed to be the offensive weapon that would put the Mets over the top and into the playoffs, the reason he got a 7-year, $119 million contract. Instead, his struggles had general manager Omar Minaya desperately trying to land a run producer - Manny Ramirez or Alfonso Soriano - before the trade deadline.

Beltran had fielder's choices on two of his first three at-bats. He scored a run after one, drove home one with the other. His last three at-bats ended up producing five outs.

After grounding out in the sixth, his lineout to right field in the eighth started a double play when Miguel Cairo, on first, misjudged the ball thinking it would drop for a hit. In the 10th inning, after Cairo's leadoff walk, he hit into a 3-6-3 double play.

"I will continue to go out and play the game," he said. "Sometimes you know things are going to go that way, sometimes they don't. Today wasn't my day."

He seemed on the brink of breaking out when the Mets last played, Sunday in Houston. Beltran was 3-for-4 and had an RBI and a stolen base. He, too, thought it might be the start of something. But yesterday he couldn't shake the inconsistency that has plagued him.

"Every time game starts I am thinking (to) go out and do the best I can and get on base for the team," he said. "If I get on base, I'm going to give the team an opportunity to score runs.

" It's just like one day is good and the (next) is not good."

[Nick]

Just for kicks, I watched some of last year's game 5 against Atlanta, where Carlos went 4-5 with 2 HR's and 5 RBIs... and I was just thinking to myself how calm and composed he looked in what would ultimately be one of the momentous nights in franchise history.

I was sure that this guy was impenetrable... so in tune with his mindset and mentally tough that he was worth the world.

I guess playing in NY every single freakin day (and having to deal with some of the idiot fans, and idiot media almost every single freakin day) will make anybody crack. I know Carlos has made his own bed by choosing to sign that contract with that team... but I know him going over there was also the product of the devil and Omar Minaya's puerto rican roots.

Don't worry Carlos... if you never recapture the "magic" you had here throughout the next SEVEN years that you're over there... its very likely that Omar would have lost his job, the fans will stop expecting you to do great things, and you'll just end up being another Bobby Bonillia (a player who had greatness written all over him... until he jumped to the Mets for more exposure and the biggest payday possible).

[MadMax]

Just for kicks, I watched some of last year's game 5 against Atlanta, where Carlos went 4-5 with 2 HR's and 5 RBIs... and I was just thinking to myself how calm and composed he looked in what would ultimately be one of the momentous nights in franchise history.

I was sure that this guy was impenetrable... so in tune with his mindset and mentally tough that he was worth the world.

I guess playing in NY every single freakin day (and having to deal with some of the idiot fans, and idiot media almost every single freakin day) will make anybody crack. I know Carlos has made his own bed by choosing to sign that contract with that team... but I know him going over there was also the product of the devil and Omar Minaya's puerto rican roots.

Don't worry Carlos... if you never recapture the "magic" you had here throughout the next SEVEN years that you're over there... its very likely that Omar would have lost his job, the fans will stop expecting you to do great things, and you'll just end up being another Bobby Bonillia (a player who had greatness written all over him... until he jumped to the Mets for more exposure and the biggest payday possible).

wow..that's a really good post. bobby bonillia is an excellent parallel.

[Svpernaut]

Good ol' Nick and Max, always having the Stros back.

[MadMax]

Good ol' Nick and Max, always having the Stros back.

i'm a fan.

but this is dead on. that .313 on base percentage is sparkling.

[Nick]

Good ol' Nick and Max, always having the Stros back.

I'm actually not defending the Astros not being able to sign him. We're fortunate that we don't have his contract right now with the performance he's putting up... but then again, I have a feeling that his #'s would be slightly better playing in Houston (the ballpark, the comfort factor, the lack of media hounding, the expectations would be decreased... etc.).

I was just reminicscing as to how less than one year ago, this guy was just a innocent/hard working/dedicated ballplayer playing his heart out for a team that had never tasted post-season success. Now, after being built up to stardom by his post-season magic and his contract, he's being slowly torn down by the media, fans, and by his own undoing.

Its tragic... no matter who you root for.

[msn]

Its tragic... no matter who you root for.
Yeah, but it "ain't no skin off my back".

Enjoy NY, Carlos. We got a pennant race over here.

Go Astros!!

[T_in_Charlotte]

Yeah, but it "ain't no skin off my back".

Enjoy NY, Carlos. We got a pennant race over here.

Go Astros!!

And, BTW Carlos, how does it feel to look up at us in the standings?